UPDATE: Please take the time to read my followup post, Fifteen Minutes of Fame, for my thoughts on what happened after I posted this picture, why it happened — and most importantly, why I don’t blame Microsoft for their actions. Thanks!
It looks like somebody over in Microsoft land is getting some new toys…
I took this shot on the way into work on the loading dock (MSCopy, the print shop I work in, is in the same building as MS’s shipping and receiving). Three palettes of Dual 2.0Ghz G5’s on their way in to somewhere deep in the bowels of Redmond. Hopefully they’re all in good condition when they arrive — the boxes are slick enough that a few of them took a bit of a tumble (you can see them back in the truck)!
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I am sure apple would love to hear your story and they’d probably offer you a job. Good luck with finding new work. Sorry you had to go through this.
That sucks man, good luck in the future
I’ve seen several controversial blogs out there, but it really proves how respectable blogs are in the media.
See this Sparkpod blog http://www.sparkpod.com/lesbians
Can you sue them (your employee)? If they are going to do this do you for such a stupid reason, might as well get the best of it. Can such reason for dismisal be legal?
Jeez, I can’t see their problem. Of course MS is going to be buying G5s. They still develop applications for the Mac so they’d kinda need some Macs to at least test things on. It’s not like they’re switching or anything.
WHAT IN THE WORLD IS OFFENSIVE TO MS ABOUT THIS BLOG? This is the silliest thing I have every heard. As others have said MS would need G5’s to develop on, and maybe use them for publishing Quark or something - I dunno. But to fire you? My heart goes out to you and I hope you quickly find gainful employment!
What were you doing with a camera at work? Most places (I’m sure its so at MS) definately view that as a no no.
You are NOT supposed to take any pictures or even carry a camera in any company. Now this guy took this picture and expects not to get fired??? What the heck is your problem guys?!! Is it because it happened in your favorite company?
Just wondering if this makes you a mac user if your not already, if so welcome, and f microsoft!
As another employee who has been fired for blogging, I feel your pain. Though mine was much more…stupid, I can still relate. One thing you’ll be able to count on is the support of your community.
Regards, adam
Typical macintosh fanatard. Way to go.
Rob, Im afraid you are overlooking the fact that most mobile phones in this day-and-age infact contain those evil camera thingys…
Good luck with finding a new job - hope you get better luck this time, and dont end up slaving for another micro$haft.
I’m sure with the exposure on /. that you’ll find a another job soon! I thought Microsoft wrote software for the Mac, so it’s quite likely that they’d have a bunch of Macs sitting around or on order. It’s not like you snapped a picture of a pallet of RedHat 9 boxes! Good luck!
Chin up—you can always sell penis enlargement pills!
The reason they fired you is that you weee a temporary employee and could have been fired without much trouble. Had you been a permanent employee, your offer of taking down the post would have been taken.
The logic being along the lines of “There’s enough negative publicity associated with our actions. If anybody’s action results in more negative publicity (especially true because of the title), and he’s on our payroll, we better find out how easy it is to fire him. … (Later) oh! he’s a temp and he creates a negative publicity for us … easier to fire him than for us to face our superior.”
I’m pretty sure most companies will take similar action against temp employees.
Bottomline - You are a temp. speak only as much as is necessary.
“You are NOT supposed to take any pictures or even carry a camera in any company” !! Since when? That could be reasonable in military facilities perhaps but not in a company unless it is explicitly displayed.
It looks more like a disgruntled colleague stabbing you in the back, given that the blog was not on an office server. Regarding using digi cameras at work, here in UK a lot of employees got an MMS phone and grabbing a pic during work to show to friends is commonly acceptable. Shame on Microsoft for being so foolish. Hope you find new work soon. Good luck
Why in the hell would Microsoft be upset about this? Like others have said - of COURSE they buy Macs. They write Mac software! Hello!?!? Office v.X anyone? It’s no secret that MS has Macs, and that they have a stake (ie they have stock, it was in the news a few years ago…) in Apple.
I personally would be driven to find out why this offended Microsoft. Best of luck to you in these times.
You pussies! What’s with the ‘careful what you post/say/do’ comments? I will be absoulutely sure to doom your lame-ass writings to the trash. Why bother reading a blog (or writing one, for that matter) if you’re going to avoid subjects for fear of reprisal?
As to this picture/one-liner that got an intern fired - it sucks, but you probably could’ve expected it from any computer company. If Apple was getting a delivery of Windows XP and you spread it around, good ‘ol Steve would probably shit his pants, then fire you.
Ironically signed, Anon. (for fear of reprisal)
I’m sorry you got fired dude but you screwed up. I totally understand Microsoft’s point of view. If it were my company I would have dismissed you as well. I don’t need my employees risking my competitiveness by publishing unauthorized photographs and information about R&D and future product.
It sucks that you got booted but the truth is, they had every right to do it!
Can you honestly sit there and think that someone at MS wasn’t going to get a little upset about you broadcasting to the entire world that they are buying Mac hardware? All employees have to consider what the company may consider confidential information. Them buying a competitor’s product would definitely count as one of those, or so I would think.
I don’t work for MS and yeah there is the case of free speech but I don’t think you considered the consequences of what you were doing. I blog about my work all the time but I don’t reveal anything to the world that might be considered confidential.
Another shining example that shows Microshaft is run by a bunch of idiots. Who gives a **** that he took a picture of some Apple boxes! Get over it Redmond.
MS should have had the G5’s shipped in non-discreet boxes
Good ol’ Microsoft. Best of luck man.
Im glad youdid the right thing, why would you want to work at microsoft anyway?
If I was bill I would buy Sun’s, run some linux boxes, why not a couple apple’s .. have to see what the competetion is doing. Getting fired over a photo is a little over the edge. Good luck, wish I had a job to offer you.
Yeah, I can see them doing it. I imagine they have a software testing lab where they need every machine possible to test on. That is part of the debugging process. Could be a reward for the guys (and gals!) at the MBU. I’m really sorry you got fired, but if I were your boss I might have had to also. Don’t worry, you will be OK.
That photo is just dying to appear on a t-shirt.
Those slagging M$ now will of course remember Apple did more or less the same a while ago, firing an Apple Store employee for having a screenshot of some application Apple uses for customer management, buried in a webserver directory
http://forums.macrumors.com/archive/topic/19575-1.html
http://virga-x.adtn.net/screenshots/Apple%20Internal/
maybe you could get a job with the company who shipped the G5’s to MS. Maybe as a quality control officer? Probably a waste of your talent i know, but if things get tight?
Quote: You are NOT supposed to take any pictures or even carry a camera in any company.
If you think that absurd comment is actually even remotely true then your a prize muppet of the highest order.
And, as you apparently, can’t see what the fuss is over…
It’s so objectionable because its just trivial nonsense over a non-event.
It’s well known that of course Microsoft has PowerPC systems (how else would they write all the Mac OS software they do?). So the secrecy on that topic isn’t an issue.
Somehow I can’t see this head line: ‘Burger King worker takes a picture of a McDonalds Milkshake in a Burger King car park, post it on his homepage, gets fired.’.
He didn’t in any way portray his employees in a bad light and their is no breach of security here. He stated MSCopy building is near the Goods Delivery building (something that someone in Security objected to, according to the blog) but that blissfully ignores the fact that the buildings are going to be clearly sign posted in particular the Goods Delivery Area (and it really doesn’t take a rocket scientist to work that one out).
There are no legitimate concerns here that warrant firing an employee, just a trumped up power tripper in Security/HR/middle management with nothing better to do than callously harm in the lives of others - all they have succeeded in doing is making the world just a little gloomier.
I can’t think the mother of the person responsible for firing this hapless employee would be proud of their offspring’s achievements that day - and the same goes for those involved who stood by and let it happen. I think the middle manager who stood for this and failed to stand up for his (even temporary) employee is spineless wonder and ought to be ashamed of themselves. We are always telling our children to stand up against decisions we think are wrong and unjust, it’s sad that we as adults seldom practice what we preach.
Like many things in life, it happened because other people are afraid to stick their necks out and say ‘No, wait a minute, that’s not fair.’ and put their foot down.
What’s happened to this employee is clearly not right, if your in any doubt (if for some reason you’ve lost the ability to tell ‘right’ from ‘wrong’) then just ask your mother, because she apparently has some unwished work left with regard to teaching you the basics…
“Rob, Im afraid you are overlooking the fact that most mobile phones in this day-and-age infact contain those *evil camera thingys” - yes, but this is one reason why there are a growing number of buildings (especially government) that require you to check your celphone at the door, unless it a) has no built-in camera, and b) has no attachment point for a camera. Seriously. People do give security a high level of importance, especially at larger companies. Besides, having shown a propensity for taking random pictures, even if this one was innocuous, how does MSFT know that the next one won’t have some more secure detail, maybe even in the background? It has nothing to do with the G5s, and everything to do with the camera.
You asked for it, man. I dont know of a big company that allows snaps like that. Besides, MS wasnt your employer if you are a temp. Wake up! Temps are considered disposable employees. Didnt you know that? Its ugly, but thats how companies look at them. You should have jumped on as a full timer when MS was switching a lot of temps over to full time.
John, While it is true that Microsoft has a booming Macintosh software division, all of their Macintosh development is done in San Francisco, at their “Mac Business Unit”, as it is called. It seems notable to me that 18 G5s have arrived in Redmond. Companies also like to keep their hands close to their chest, and they depend on their employees (temp or not) to do that. If some employee was wandering around Apple with a phonecam posting pictures of interesting things to the web, s/he wouldn’t last 5 minutes.
Microsoft is a bunch of shit-sucking pig fucker nazi assholes. Fuck them.
You deserve to be fired you stupid fuck! If I posted photos that contravined my contract my employer would rightfully do the same thing. Besides.. why wouldn’t MS want MACS? They need them for testing, at the very least.
Sounds like M$ all right. If they made such a big deal about the blog, it obviously has some merit… M$ wants to be sure word doesn’t get out about the fact that even they know Macs are so much more superior than any joke of a Xerox-OS they can release… They obviously have no ability to create anything original (just look at the overly slowly developing Longhorn). Their nifty new feature set looks like they took Apple’s patented technologies, and then created new names for them and stuck it into their own box. Just look into their “pile” method of managing documents on the hard drive. It’s like that PC M$ helped design with HP (I think it was)… All the original features of that machine either come from already existing Mac technology, or from Apple patents… M$ must have Apple patents as a subscription. As soon as Apple files a new one, M$ gets it and immediately begins adding it to their system…
KMFDM woo
Attention all: Don’t take pictures of your workplace. This goes for anywhere you work. — tom7.org
Only in America…..
Don’t worry dude, you weren’t exactly hanging with the smartest crowd on the planet, even though 95% of planet Earth seems to think otherwise. I friend of mine got hired by Microsoft last year, nice guy and all that, but a grade one ass licker, only does what he’s told. Definitely not the kind of person I’d want to employ.
Hey! You are a temp worker! Who cares? Layoff my ass, you were let go; it’s not like they owe you any loyalty for all your temp work.
Ya know the thing is, now more peeps will know about MS’s Macs than if they would have just shut up. Stupid.
America runs on FEAR!
You undermined your employer. Now live withthe consequences.
Taking pictures of inside company shipments and posting them would get you fired from anywhere. I feel sorry for you as I have been fired from a job myself, it hurts. I think this has less to do with Microsoft worrying about buying a few Macs (much to the wish of ‘anti Microsoft’ folk, they already own Mac for fucks sakes) and more to do with inside company inventory and inside confidential information being posted on the web. Think about this and take it as lesson not to do something quite this stupid again.
joe blow, i think you have hit the nail on the head
I posted this elsehwere, but I’ll post it here.
I don’t like Microsoft in general. I don’t like their practices, ethics, many policies, etc. However, while I agree that the action appears excessive, I do defend Microsoft’s right (really any corporate entities right) to protect itself (security and other).
The fact of the matter is, eclecticism was not sensitive to what is allowed by the company with which he was employed. He exercised poor judgement and unfortunately, it was costly. I expect he will learn from that practice. In the future, he should actively determine what is allowable by the company and then use that as a guage for posting on his own blog.
As we have personal privacy so do corporations. Think about that.
And as for those that are talking about MS not wanting anyone to know they have Mac, I ask you, how much of Apple does Microsoft own? Please, let’s be serious about why someone would be fired for doing this.
Such a massive secret u let out of the bag!!!
Did you sign a non-disclosure aggrement??? Was there any sort of visible ‘No cameras’ allowed sign anywhere?? I would think most people would not have expected such a despicable reaction.
This sucks. US and UK employment laws are so shit, the very fact that you where a temp worker with no rights is harsh. I fear for humanity as a whole. You people above who have defended MS actions, you must love your companies soooo much. I will piss myself with laughter when they abuse you.
If I has posted unauthorised pictures and information about a company I had worked for I would expect disciplinary action. Sorry but you really do deserve it. This is the way of the real, professional working world in IT. I dislike most Microsoft products as much as the next man but these pictures are embarressing to your previous employer and probably violating the contract you worked under. Oops. Good luck with the job hunt.
i think its funny microsoft needs apple’s you should get that shit in the newspapers im only sorry 4 Michael
You people are ridiculous. Look at the facts here. ANY company (yes, ANY company) would have fired a temp employee (and given a full-time employee a damn strong warning) for photographing company property/goings-on behind the scenes and blogging the photo without permission. If you don’t believe that, and if you have a job, just ask someone in your HR department about what happened here and see what would happen at your company. Cry about the injustice of it if you want, but it’s reality. If it was your company and you had some temp jackass taking pictures behind the scenes and posting them on the web without your permission, what would you do? You’d walk his ass out the door like they did. Regardless of this photo in particular being harmless (everyone knows that MS owns Macs), what he did illustrates a severe lack of judgement (read as — if he did this without permission, what else will he do without permission). Hell, he even mentioned his company’s name, which implies some sort of endorsement for the post. Go on and cry about this being another example of big bad MS, but they did what any other company would do. Some lessons in life are learned the hard way. Hopefully, this guy learned his lesson and next time, he will leave his damn camera at home and focus on doing his job.
So here is what comes to mind. Why would Microsoft Want to hide the fact that they bought G5’s. Microsoft Makes does software for the macs, aka OFFICE. What, are they going to test apple software on a PC????? That is just gay all around. If make software for apple you need apple computers to test it on … simple and easy.
Microsoft is lame if they fired him.
As trivial as these photos are, it can easily be considered industrial espionage.
For Bobby T. and other religious fanatics, Xerox (parc) invented many many many things (gui ,event drive programming) and gave them to Apple (and the rest of the world). MS did not steal the ideas from Apple, it took what was freely available. Trademarking the generic “windows” term was a dirty trick though.
Never forget the MS is the one who bailed Apple out when they were going under.
SOLIDARITY!!! Rise up my fellow workers! Rise up! You have nothing to loose but your chains!
I’m taking the FISH… Who’s with me!?
Good luck, hope you find a better job. Seems like M$ doesn’t understand even a little bit of humor (think even at Apple they have some Windoz-machines). Greetings from Hamburg Germany and best wishes for future (you did right man!) … Tice ; )
Sure, everyone involved was within their rights to take the actions taken. Microsoft’s actions are still kind of suprising because those actions turn a non-event into unfavorable news.
Gasp! Microsoft might actually have a Macintosh in use! No way! … Yeh, right. We’re supposed to believe they’re so talented that they can develop and test software for Macintosh without actually having Macs?
Microsoft markets software to provide Windows connectivity to Unix platforms too. It wouldn’t even be news to me if Microsoft had to move their IBM mainframe and a stack of Solaris boxes to make room for the Macs. In recent months Microsoft even stated they were setting up a lab to evaluate Linux.
So what’s the news here? “Heavy handed Microsoft fires employee.”
“While it is true that Microsoft has a booming Macintosh software division, all of their Macintosh development is done in San Francisco, at their “Mac Business Unit”, as it is called. It seems notable to me that 18 G5s have arrived in Redmond.”
Perhaps MS has tech support for their Mac software in Redmond. Or perhaps the tech writers who write the manuals for Office v.X are there.
I worked there for a while. Someone that was interviewing for a job blogged about what a “stupid asshole” her boss was, his boss was “a fucking bitch”, and everyone else (including HR) were idiots. She got the job, but she continued to complain about specific details every day. They finally found the blog, and yes, she was fired… and I don’t think many people would argue with that.
I dislike MS probably more than most Mac users because I have five years of reasons. However, they aren’t any different than most companies. If you publicly mention anything that happens on the job, it can be grounds for termination.
You boss probably would not have fired you. Since he mentioned the official “security” word and phrases like “not welcome”, chances are he was getting pressure from above.
Just remember that when it comes to business, whether it is a boss, coworker, company, temp agency, whatever, nobody is your friend… and I wouldn’t be surprised if you have problems getting jobs in the future because of these blog entries.
Was the firing over the mention of M$ having G5’s or the posting of an image from the campus? When I worked at Apple, they had a very strict “no photo” rule. And what about that other pallet of G5’s that arrived at Bill Gates house?
Lets face it though , You dont want to work for a company that are such bastards to their staff anyway.
Apple should hire you
Releasing that information for the public is not the right of the blogger. If was the right of Microsoft. It would be like your girlfriend showing your mom your porn collection. It is not their concern. Why is it when linux users infringe on the rights of Micro$oft, Micro$oft is the a-hole, but when M$ ask for you to register a product to protect their OWN intellectual property, the linux nerds take up their torches… Linux users are arrogant and have a double standard. If you had AIDS do you think it is the responsibility of your employer to tell its employees?
M$ sells about a $billion worth of Mac software… they’re not going to jeopardize that much money… they WANT MS Mac software to work and work good… With the open source Office suites getting better and better they have reason to sweat…
If you get a chance, can you reveal what that graffiti painted on the loading dock says? Looks like “FREE REDMOND” maybe?
microsoft dont have the rights to do that, isnt wrong! damn, they suck.
the slashdot crowd awaits!
Heh, Mircosoft lost a Huge PR opportunity here. They could have milked the “Hey, we play nice with our competitors!” Edge. In this day of massive lawsuits and enourmously bad PR, such as DRM and viri scurring about the Windows world, Microsoft needs all the help they can get with the public.
Of course, we are talking about Microsoft here…
SOLIDARTY! Rise up my fellow wrokers! You have nothing to loose but your chains!
Did they have a justification to let him go? Sure. How good of one is debatable. Did they have the right to let him go? Sure. Could he have seen it coming - well certainly he should have seen trouble as a possibility.
But I ask - was it SMART for them to fire him? His boss acknowledged his right to do what he did and called it “unfortunate” that they had decided to fire him over it, and asked whether he could make ammends by taking down the posting. So it seems he was a decent employee and his boss wasn’t looking to get rid of him. So, they incur the cost of restaffing, training, and the lost productivity of the learning curve. Because they offer no justification to take the posting down, even if it does indeed represent a “security violation,” (and I find it pretty difficult to believe that the relevant pieces of information - that Microsoft buys Macs and that MSCopy is in the same building as MS’s shipping and receiving, represent particularly sensitive or secret information) their action guarantee that the information will STAY out there on the internet, and in fact gain more noteriety (I surfed in from Metafilter) because now it is not just, oh funny, stacs o’ Macs at Redmond, it’s ooh, the Evil Empire fired a blogger! They could have made a deal - we think this is a security issue, here’s why, if you want to keep your job take it down, and allow us to ask anyone reprinting it to take it down since they would by definition be doing it without his permission. He keeps his job, Microsoft keeps a good employee, and the “security issue” is taken care of as best as it, at this point, can be. So. was it that they didn’t really care about the security thing, but are so bound by their own rules that they can’t make the more intelligent play in this kind of situation? Or is it that it really was just the “we perceive this as a dig against Microsoft, so trump up a security violation and fire him? (If so another misfire, see the issue of greater publicity above). Or are they too stupid to see that it WASN’T malicious, that any chance of eliminating security issues lay in being flexible, and that firing him could only cost them resources for no gain? Sounds pretty stupid to me.
That’s quite right Ed. If you work for a corporation you should expect to be screwed at random… BUT, it is hard to see why Microsoft would want to deny that it purchased a few G5s given that they write software for these machines.
Also, any corporation does “opposition research”… who would be surprised by that?
A rational organization would simply point this fact out.
But when you work for a large corporation you are not likely to be working for a rational organization… it’s hire and fire at will. Get used to it.
Sorry but….DUH….what the hell did you expect?
I dunno if anyone forgot, but Microsoft is located in what country? Under what laws are both Microsoft and this former employee protected? Although it isn’t advisable to photograph things within the confines of your employer’s campus, unless a specific “no picture” edict was issued I doubt they’d have a legal leg to stand on. Because he didn’t photograph anything but the inside of a delivery truck (for this particular page) it doesn’t even seem that it would be comprehensively covered under a law banning sharing of trade secrets or other similar nonsense. Although I’m no lawyer, you should collect unemployment if possible and screw them the legal way—if you don’t want reinstated. If you DO, then talk to a qualified attorney if you haven’t already…
I don’t understand why there is such an outrage for MS’s actions? If you think MS shouldn’t have fired him then at what point to you draw the line about what you can take pictures of or release to the public? Employees do not know the reason behind every event or action within a company. What appears to be a harmless picture could in fact be exposing a particular business strategy or direction that is intended to be kept secret (though I doubt Microsoft direction here was “towards” Apple). The contract a person signs when hired binding them to keep company activities secret is there for a reason—everyone can assume a level of confidentiality that permits work to be done without unecessary security checks. Microsoft had to set a precedent or the gray area that would exist allowing employees to take pictures of whatever they wanted. By the way, I’m willing to be there is a no-disclosure agreement somewhere in his work contract (temp or full-time) restricting what he can say (with pictures, words, etc) about the activities of Microsoft. I’m also willing to bet taking pictures and presenting them on the web in the manner he did falls under prohibited behavior.
I guess it depends on if Michael signed an NDA or was advised of the restriction on workplace photography. If he did, then he knew what he was doing was wrong. If he didn’t, then Microsoft has no grounds for dismissal based on a single incident, unless they can prove intent to cause material harm or corporate espionage, etc. - which I think any reasonable judge would throw out on its ear. (On the other hand, if you can, why not sue ‘em for wrongful dismissal?)
What’s more worrying to me is that Microsoft obviously has their own version of Echelon or something out there, monitoring all employee activities online whether at work or at home. I realize the software biz is competitive, and Microsoft didn’t get to be king of the hill by playing nice, but there are some serious ethical considerations here. Seriously, though, who does it harm to show some G5s arriving at Microsoft? Apple develops for Windows (Quicktime, iTunes, iPod, AppleWorks, FileMaker, WebObjects, to name a few) and Microsoft develops for Mac (WMP, Office, hardware peripherals, IE, VirtualPC which was acquired from Connectix, etc.) so it makes sense they’d have some for compatibility testing at least!
Microsoft sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is why I turned Microsoft down when I was approached by them. I use their software but I am more partial to any form of Unix(TM) for many objective reasons. They (Microsoft) simply need to grow up.
Good luck.
-Chuck
an Apple geek that work for Microsoft and has a server on a GNU/Linux box… good mix
you will easily find a new job thanks to slashdot
Hye even we need paperweights
They’ve truly made a martyr out of you. In all honesty the picture really isn’t that poignant. It doesn’t show “MS HQ” in big bold letters or anything so it’s not like it could turn into a huge email chain letter or something. Taken outside of your blog, one could speculate it could’ve been shot behind an office depot or something.
Just one more reason my views of M$ seem more justified. Good luck in your job hunt. What a crappy reason to let someone go. M$ Hiding behind G4’s and Linux servers….. LOL
Thanks for the story… it was awesome, sorry it cost you your job though.
Hey you,
the responsible people for that kickass action at Microsoft …
Why you don’t go outside and play hide and go fuck yourself?
These were only pictures. Everybody in the whole world knows, that you are using Macs.
Microsoft has every right to fire this guy, but that doesn’t take away from the fact that Microsoft is a predatory monster that also happens to be as hypocritical as they come.
This reminds me of a (reliably sourced) story of a guy who went in to get interviewed, thought it would be funny, when asked why he wanted to join the Corporation joked that he wanted to see what it was like to work for the “Evil Empire” & got in return stonefaced stares.
& regarding this incident, yes, someone shouldn’t go around taking pictures on company property but this is just one image, could easily have been taken down — & it seems to me to have much more to do with the attitude revealed in the Evil Empire anecdote than any rational policy. If you say anything even obviously in jest to criticize the Corp., they are through with you forever. (Readers of Franken’s latest book can compare this to the paranoid with-us-or-against-us attitude of Barbara Bush & perhaps various of her offspring.)
(Wow, great comment preview feature!)
Bla, Bla, Bla… a Mac is Mac! Good luck for you…!
There are many companies that allow no cameras or photography equipment on the premises. Seems Microsoft is one of them. Quite common. The young fellow was punished appropriately.
Remember this: Their game, their rules. Also “Don’t do stupid stuff”.
Seems strange to fire over something like that.
And it’s not not like that buying Mac in any way should seems strange.
Any company ought to find out how the competitors are doing, to improve their own products.
Microsoft develops applications for use on Apples computers.
Microsoft owns a number of stocks in Apple, why not check the investment by testing the products?
Does this suck? Yes. Is Micro$oft the enormous, humorless corporate omnivore we all think it is? Yes. Is that the same M$ that was found guilty in 2000 of hiring a gazillion temps that were de facto permanent employees, then denying them benefits? Yes. (Google “Microsoft permatemp” - the settlement is still unpaid). Is this predictable given the paranoid environment of a corporations-world first we live in? Quite likely. Could the M$ managers have thought hard for about two seconds and avoided all this bad PR? Maybe. Could Michael have seen this coming? Probably (unfortunately).
That said, I wish you well in your job hunt. Remember, getting fired is just the opportunity to find a better job (was for me, anyway). ABSOLUTELY look beyond the temp agency - they’re fine for paying the bills, but not much for starting a career.
And actually, Aardvark, M$ doesn’t own ANY “amount of Apple” (I presume you mean voting stock). The $150 million investment from 1997 was non-voting (controlling) shares, was Does this suck? Yes. Is Micro$oft the enormous, humorless corporate omnivore we all think it is? Yes. Is that the same M$ that was found guilty in 2000 of hiring a gazillion temps that were de facto permanent employees, then denying them benefits? Yes. (Google “Microsoft permatemp” - the settlement is still unpaid). Is this predictable given the paranoid environment of a corporations-world first we live in? Quite likely. Could the M$ managers have thought hard for about two seconds and avoided all this bad PR? Maybe. Could Michael have seen this coming? Probably (unfortunately).
That said, I wish you well in your job hunt. Remember, getting fired is just the opportunity to find a better job (was for me, anyway). ABSOLUTELY look beyond the temp agency - they’re fine for paying the bills, but not much for starting a career.
And actually, Aardvark, M$ doesn’t own ANY “amount of Apple” (I presume you mean voting stock). The $150 million investment from 1997 was non-voting (controlling) shares, was Does this suck? Yes. Is Micro$oft the enormous, humorless corporate omnivore we all think it is? Yes. Is that the same M$ that was found guilty in 2000 of hiring a gazillion temps that were de facto permanent employees, then denying them benefits? Yes. (Google “Microsoft permatemp” - the settlement is still unpaid). Is this predictable given the paranoid environment of a corporations-world first we live in? Quite likely. Could the M$ managers have thought hard for about two seconds and avoided all this bad PR? Maybe. Could Michael have seen this coming? Probably (unfortunately).
That said, I wish you well in your job hunt. Remember, getting fired is just the opportunity to find a better job (was for me, anyway). ABSOLUTELY look beyond the temp agency - they’re fine for paying the bills, but not much for starting a career.
And actually, Aardvark, M$ doesn’t own ANY “amount of Apple” (I presume you mean voting stock). The $150 million investment from 1997 was non-voting (controlling) shares, was Does this suck? Yes. Is Micro$oft the enormous, humorless corporate omnivore we all think it is? Yes. Is that the same M$ that was found guilty in 2000 of hiring a gazillion temps that were de facto permanent employees, then denying them benefits? Yes. (Google “Microsoft permatemp” - the settlement is still unpaid). Is this predictable given the paranoid environment of a corporations-world first we live in? Quite likely. Could the M$ managers have thought hard for about two seconds and avoided all this bad PR? Maybe. Could Michael have seen this coming? Probably (unfortunately).
That said, I wish you well in your job hunt. Remember, getting fired is just the opportunity to find a better job (was for me, anyway). ABSOLUTELY look beyond the temp agency - they’re fine for paying the bills, but not much for starting a career.
And actually, Aardvark, M$ doesn’t own ANY “amount of Apple” (I presume you mean voting stock). The $150 million investment from 1997 was non-voting (controlling) shares, was <5% at the time, and has long since been bought back - at a healthy profit, I might add..
GET A
Respect where it’s due. Nice One
Classic picture, Honest person.
Poindexter wrote:
We are all considered disposable employees. Don’t fool yourself into thinking otherwise.
Welcome to the (corporate beehive mentality) machine. Being out of work sucks. Not working for M$ or its ilk sounds pretty good, though. There is life beyond corporate enslavement. The trick seems to be to live a good life and a good working life.
That really sucks.
They must have wanted to get some real work done on an OS that does not contantly hang give you non-reponsive program errors all the time. I work on MS technologies all day an I spend a lot of time waiting for XP, Visual Studio , or some other MS app just to do what it is supposed too.
well WelcomeToTheRealWorld is right but Ed is also right Microsoft is lame if they fired him.
If you were in the military. You would be executed for treason. Consider yourself lucky.
Nobody that can think or act in an independent fashion is welcome at Microsoft or Real or any of the companies that have used all of the technological marvels created by the ‘disposable’ generation of engineers to make themselves rich beyond comprehension. Here is what You must all understand…You are all replaceable right here in Your own country by cheap copies of american Engineering excellence from all over the planet. The lies these companies and the government have told and gotten away with to replace over 2.5 million american workers is the real story that is slowly coming out. You need to know and understand that censorship is the first and fastest way to control public opinion. fortunately it is too late for all of these companies because the truth is out and there is no stopping it now.
“The best weapon of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed”…Steven Biko
http://www.complex-numbers.com
Anyone here think that Apple’s never looked at a Windoze box. Of course they have! It good business to see what your Competition has. It just business.
And, of course as an employee of a company its not smart to make fun of it in a public forum. Such an act is clearly disloyal and should result in Disciplinary Action.
I work for a rather large, rather blue computer company, and I had to sign a non-disclosure agreement before I began working stating that I would NOT BRING ANY CAMERAS on the site. They even have signs posted on the door. I’m sure it’s the same at Microsoft. Employers are sensitive to this because of a little term called “corporate espionage”.
Microsoft did the right thing. This guy made a mistake and he become famous because he was trying to embarass Microsoft by taking Mac pictures. I think he deserved it.
Best wishes from the UK , never worry about telling the truth , you get tremendous Kudos and support from us Brit Macheads for this . Will send your blog address to everyone I know , espescialy my newly qualified MSCE mate so he knows just who he’s signed a pact with … Good luck with whatever you do next and “don’t let the bastards grind you down ” ( old british trade union phrase ) Chin Up !
Dude some of you people really need to shut up! Who the hell cares if he posts a picture of some G5’s that MS bought. It’s obvious that any company that large that even writes software for apple would own at least a few G5’s. Boohoo already. Yeah, they have that right to fire him but it still makes them a jackass. Just cuz you can do something doesn’t mean you should, they could have solved this a lot more elegantly. For all those flamers, think about this, did you never see something at work or while you were not on your own time that you thought was intereseting and either told your friends/family or showed them a picture? If not, get a life =P Leave this guy alone, he was just trying to share a little funny irony with the world and got bit for it. Good luck dude and don’t mind these flamers
I am at a loss for words except on my blog, http://www.extraheavymarcellus.com/mt/index.html.
Spreading the word in Baltimore, Maryland.
Regards,
brian “eXtra heavy” czarski
This one’s for you. I think you’ll end up at a good company. Like I suggested at the end of my article at http://www.iscomputeron.com/index/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=145 you might try Apple. I think they will be rather amused if you would apply for a job in THEIR print house
Well, that just shows you what sort of thing micros**t will do. Found this via slashdot, great idea to make those G5s public! Hope Apple hires you
wow !!!!
Microsoft developes software for Apple, hence Office for Macs, so why is it such a big deal that Microsoft has G5s. I mean sure they were once notorious for having poorly tested code, but heaven forbid they get the newest technology to test their newest version of Internet Explorer on it. I’m hardly a Microsoft proponent, but I really don’t see the overwhelming surprise in them having G5s. However, I do think that Microsoft’s firing of this employee is unjust. Whatever this man decides to do in his personal life and on his own time, is exactly that his own time, and not Microsofts. So basically, there is no big surprise Microsoft has G5s, not really worth pissing your pants over, and not sure why Microsft feels this picture is so scandilous. It you wanna see scandilous, check out the blue screen of death that plagued mid 90’s computer geeks.
Like others, the photo and heading seem innocent (for me, I took it as partially tongue in cheek) nor do I have much love for Microsoft. I also feel for the loss of the job but the fact is many large companies do not want employees permanent or temp to go around shooting photos internally no matter how innocent they may be. It is about the easiest way to discourage workers from bringing cameras from the start as opposed to having a do’s and don’t list of what things are acceptable. A permanent worker may have been given a little more leeway and would have probably just received a reprimand and warning but temps really have little rights and so are expendable. While this was nothing like the case with the trade secrets cases against Juan Gutierrez (the Apple temp worker who leaked photos back in 2000 of upcoming hardware products) or Juan Lopez (an Apple contract worker who leaked schematic drawings of the Power Mac G4 MDD systems in 2001), just be happy that MS did not go the legal route which would have been heavy handed even though well within their discretion.
As for having G5’s in Redmond, don’t see anything wrong with that since there are probably units that do work closely with the MacBU in Silicon Valley for compatibility cases (does anyone know if the Mac development of the Windows Media stuff is now part of MacBU since before, it was still part of the group in Redmond). This is no different than Apple buying Dell’s for their own developers for AppleWorks, QuickTime and iTunes for Windows.
haha thats funny, but if microsoft dont want you taking pictures then you shouldnt. they probably asked themselves why would you need to bring that cam to work.
What were you thinking?? Of course the ‘Axi$ of Evil’ uses Macs. Thats how they nicked the GUI in the first place! Tough break getting sacked and all, but that’s the big-leagues … these guys play hardball. Especially since you proved to your employer (M$ and Xerox!! - wowy - double point score!) you could be a risk for Industrial Espionage. Good luck in your future, kid.
what assholes.
disciplinary action is more appropriate. sheesh.
Why was this so bad. Microsoft produce a number of software titles for Mac, its just pointless and it creates more of an anti microsoft sentiment around both PC & Mac users.
I find it funny that so many people are focusing on the Macs at Microsoft angle. It’s called an NDA. Non Disclosure Agreement. I bet he signed one, and It looks like he violated it. I’m willing to bet that it could have been a pallet full of post-it notes, and if someone high enough up in the company saw it, he’d get canned. I used to work at MS and used a Mac as my main workstation. It wasn’t that big of a deal. Especially when you consider that back in 97 MS very publicly bought $150 million dollars in Apple Stock.
I dont understand how this could be a security issue. I can get a map of the Microsoft campus off “Yahoo”. You should Sue these guys.
read about mr michael hanson on theregister. Too bad man. But i do envy a person who has Macs and I have’nt./ MS is’nt the only employer out here. Just carry on your good work.
And yeah, could you get the form fields for Name, Email and URL properly aligned against the fields?
—\ cheers
He wasn’t fired for posting that MS had Macs, he was fired for telling folks where to go to find an unattended loading dock full of very expensive hardware.
A map of the MS campus is available on-line, and is would be easy enough for an enterprising young thief to pick that out and say “Hay, just go here and wait, sooner or later I get free stuff.”
As a former security professional, this is the sort of thing I took people to task for. Never got any one fired though…
quote:
The picture itself might have been permissible, but because I also mentioned that I worked at the MSCopy print shop, and which building it was in, it pushed me over the line.
microsoft does seem to be security conscious with Gates supporting rfid and all. are the G5’s shipped with OS X? unix & mac in redmond. delicious
They is not Mac G5, they is weapons of mass description.
Do stupid stuff and get fired. Such a sad commentary on the world we live in, this idiot wants us to feel sorry for him because he used poor judgement. Sure Gates=Incubus, but the process of natural selection cannot be stopped. Fuckups get fired, then next thing you know, they are pumping your gas.
sorry
What the?! Surely microsoft have now generated more publicity by sacking you than they would have if the post was just removed, as you offered to do…
why do you use THEIR definition of “professional” ? those who make these silly rules are the minority on this planet, and the sheeps follow instead of revolting. “professional working” can be everything, and it is not unprofessional to say what you think, or post on your website what you have seen somewhere, it is just human.
i hope he gets a good job at apple and i hope he will post anything on the web what he wants to, and not what apple allows him to.
yellow hawk, the caprice is ready to ride…go locaburg
Probably, but if that was me or a co-worker, I’d come up with the idea that as long as they don’t know, I can do whatever I wanted with the photos, so I’d just keep them for say, a month or two, then forward it around as some e-mail and Microsoft won’t know it was me and then. It was a bad idea, and let’s hope that this lesson isn’t wasted.
When you started work at MS do you remember when you signed your contract?
Sure you do … it was that legal document with the section about confidentiality in it.
doh!
ever heard of the mac bu ?
sue them!
he’s not being fired for the picture, although the sucurity issue could be factored in, but for the fact that he directly violated a contract he signed when becoming employed. If microsoft doesn’t doesn’t respond to this incident what next, they guys posting pics of longhorn before ms releases them? It sucks for the guy, but rules are rules, If corperations make exceptions it opens them up to all sorts of lawsuits, because it could be ‘discrimination’. I know upon entering intel, (of which I’m not an employee) I sign a wavor, have an employ cosign for me and see ‘no camera’ and ‘no photo’ signs everywhere. The guy is unlucky. But if microsoft really wanted to it could have done more. If it was about the photo they could have demanded it’s removal even after it was taken.
Comment from Australia: I find it disgusting that the U.S. has it’s 1st amendment to it’s constitution (guaranteeing freedom of speech) only to have someone terminated for performing it. Stand up America to Microsoft acting so badly!!!!
even here in austria this is a topic (see: http://futurezone.orf.at/futurezone.orf?read=detail&id=196372&tmp=24826) looks like ms looses a lot of friends around the world …
Maybe you should try to contact Apple, to see if they can offer a job
Go go go go michael go!
it´s a shame for ms that they fired you. it´s just a fact that they bought G5´s so they should be able to handle that fact. -and of course handle this fact in public.
they are poor minded, so don´t worry and get yourself a new job. - i think you have learned something about that.
all the best…
Hi there michael…. I just wondered…….those G5’s….Did Microsoft paided them in advance??? I don’t think so because you will have the same payement-policies like here in the EU. The will probably paid them in a month or so. So that makes me wonder: was gear (G5) at that moment actually property of Microsoft???? (legally….)
Goodluck!
MacB
Good luck! We support you.
Dude, all the Beast of Redmond has done is turn you into a digital martyr.
Dictionary.com says it best….
microsoft
The new Evil Empire. The basic complaints are, that (a) their system designs are horrible botches, (b) we can’t get source to fix them, and (c) they throw their weight around a lot. (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=microsoft)
no comment, just ridiculous MS
I would be suprised if Microsoft did not have any Apple computer equipment. How are they supposed to write Macintosh compatible software witout it? Maybe they will make a better version of SoftWindows XP that will be less of an emulator and more of an operating system.Ã
Because THEY pay for the work.
Im no Mac fan my self. linux is more of my thing. But this story is just sad. I would never have expected any better from bills boys thow.
Microsoft gets remembered, but it is NOT a pleasant picture with which they replaced an innocuous post. It has not enhanced their image in ANY regard, so all publicity is not good publicity.
If they were smart, they could have used the blog to their advantage in the Apple user community & left their winDoze base largely unaffected.
Obviously when Mr Charlie decides a harmless, self-evident joke is not to their liking, he can send his sharecroppers packing. That makes Mr Charlie powerful, but not a redeeming quality.
Nonetheless, I think the blogger gave excess detail about the place he works that was a little dumb. To say Microsoft is one thing, but to add elaboration implies he doesn’t always think before he leaps. But a long way from sufficient reason to sack an employee in this case.
Perhaps they need to sack the person who made the decision to sack this guy?
As for the guy writing about the religion of Eisner & Co, as detailed in another tangental posting here - It shows not everyone that writes can craft a good paragraph. I thought the column point was muddled & rather amateurish in that last paragraph. I think there might be a point made, but as stated it was close to nonsequitor in presentation.
Sitting on the other side of the world, LOL. Are Microsoft ever going to grow up???
Nunca pensei que a Microsoft compraria Mac… Ou sera que o Tio Bill percebeu que o Windows nao vale nada? Afinal, Mac eh futuro e PC eh Passado! eheheh []’s
sorry for the accident. What were the official reason of your lay-off? did they think you were a 007spy?
ribes
I bet they use Panther for copying some nice features for their own Longhorn OS that will be released in 2006.
Doesn’t MSFT create Mac software. Don’t they need Macs to design and test with?
Whoever prepared those computers for shipping, I assume at Apple, should be FIRED also!! An entire roll of shrink wrap cost about $9, and it takes about 1/20th of a roll to properly wrap a pallet. In the picture you can see the total carelessness of packing, there is just a feeble thin amount of wrap around that fallen pallet. So Steve Jobs please pass this along to your shipping team, the person in charge of wrapping pallets sucks!
This prove one more time how much M$ suxxxx!!!
Think you should be hired by Apple
Thats just stupid nonsense man , suck shit MS
Gee, I was under this impression that Microsoft makes the rules at their own company. Did you think that perhaps they might not like you photographing sensitive material at work and publicly posting it? How would you feel if Microsoft published your pay stubs publicly on their website?
What a bananahead; you deserve to be unemployed due to stupidity. You should refer potential future employers to your blog so they know they would know they are hiring a potential spy.
And no, I don’t work for Microsoft or own any stock, etc.
Mark
Wow, everyone wants what they don’t have. So sad. Wow, big news, certainly worth losing your job over… Microsoft orders in some G5s to experiment on perhaps? Sheesh, they must not trust their own system becuz tehy r yoozing macs!!1! M4Ks 4 evr!!111!
well, as you know the word eclectism, you should know one another: totalitarism. may be MS corp. workers should read something about adolf hitler, joseph stalin and about modern history of middle and eastern europe
there you can find something about fighting with censorship and a regime at all.
other hand. as i can remember, constitution of US gives to citiziens many rights. read it carefully, and then go to the lawer. there is a big sack of money to win in that game.
What the hell is microsoft doing?
Silly M$ your Trix are for kids.
Dude, I share your sadness. I got booted from Orance PCS (Formaly Hutchinson Communications) for using their logo on my site. They stated it was a potential security risk as they didn’t want my site to affiliate with Orange, so I got booted, Just after they mention that I was an excellent employee and it would be a sad loss to the team to let me go.
The point is, that corporate companies are as ruthless as they come, they only want good press and don’t want splinter’s in their eye’s, even by good employee’s Ok we both made a mistake, but See it this way, its their loss. We can only move on and better ourself’s from these experiences.
I wish you luck in what ever venture may come your way.
Michael Knight
Dear Michael,
It is also incumbent upon you to exercise discretion with regard to knowledge that comes into your possession as a consequence of your employment which could be in any way considered confidential.
the picture that you placed on this site.
privately acknowledging to Microsoft this mistake along with an appeal for another chance. I, personally, think you would have had a good chance of prevailing. However, instead of pursuing a constructive course of action, you chose to exacerbate your indiscretion by publicizing the situation aggressively.
try to learn from your mistakes.
Regards and good luck,
Raison d’etre
Microsoft probably just wanted the machines for R&D of the stuff put on “Mactopia”. You need Macs to test your Mac software on; right? Our Bloggin’ friend neglected to mention that he was fired for sniffin’ the blanket wash used to clean the printing presses…;)
and why wouldn’t MS be able to use G5’s: they need some hardware to test their MS Office’s for MAC eh don’t they ?
instead of taking a picture: why did’nt he rip off the above G5 for himself as a payment to stay quiet
Retardado del culo, como se te ocurre sacar una foto en un sitio de Microsoft siendo un puto esclavo de Microsoft. es que sos retardado o te chifla el culo como a mi novio Gerry. Te quiero. Te ofrezco la cola. My ass is yours. Sincerely Omar “the black boy” Gomez
Microsoft is great…long live Windows
BORING. NEXT.
so fun..so far !!!…fried just because of that pic ….. oh oooooh oh
))))
be well to do 
just read your story on cnn. microsoft is a conglomorate of idiots. best of luck michael.
Well I will throw my 2 cents in. I think taking a camera to work especially as a contractor is usally a bad idea no matter what you intend on photographing. Yes its a pretty lame thing to most people that this pic would get anyone fired but to the execs over at Microsoft its obviously a clear violation of the non-discolsure agreement.
What I REALLY want to know is, how the hell did they find this Blog and picture?!?!?! Were they monitoring your blog site? They must have been, very strange. If they were monitoring it, how did they find it and how many other employee personal websites do they monitor? Talk about paranoid! Plus, why did they manager ask if the blog was hosted on a microsoft computer? Dosent anyone over there at Microsoft know how to use trace route? Haha. Oh well Good luck on the job search.
-Geoff
wow.. damn.
Whadda crock. Nothing wrong with what you did. If anything, they warn you not to do it again. ‘IF’ this was not the greatest judgment on your part, it certainly didn’t warrant termination. Says a lot about MS, doesn’t it? Very sad. Hopefully someone will recognize your enterprising skills (MS should have) and hire you pronto. Best o’ luck.
Get real. Mickey Dumb—you got what you deserved. Nothing is owed to you—idiot. Do you realize how many Americans are unemployed and would not have jeopardized the chance you we given, if it were given to them? Boo-hoo…no tears are crying from my face.
You fucking dumb fuck.
haha sorry to hear about your job
Another reason to switch to Linux!
Hey. What? I have been unemployed for the last year, and I say…welcome! It seems to me that you were making poor choices the minute you came onto campus with a camera. So, now my friend, live with it! remember: He who knows why is master of he who knows how…We know how you got fired, now do you know why?…..C`mon, be the master!
Oh, yeah, I almost forgot. Please dont turn into an egocentric prick because you are getting some hot press from this………..oh, wait, what am I saying………you are already an egocentric prick just by thinking you had important things to say, and that people were actually drooling over your daily mind numbingly unimportant blogging. But, hey, who am I, but a lowly unemployed geek who is stupidly responding to comments when I should be posting resume`s…Life really is important, employment is not obligitory. I might be drunk!
We sorry very must Michael, we think this is not just
Hey Michael,
Find good lawyers and don’t let them make this kind of things. It’s outrageous.
well, a short one to say don’t mind pricks like Big Daddy, who’s obviously too egoist to think about other people’s misfortunes, and have faith in the future : it’s probably a hard time right now, and a disappointment, but it’ll turn into an opportunity and you’ll find another job way better than the one at Microsoft. Good luck and keep it up!
Cheers - 147
Sorry dude…Good luck.
Well you made the news in the Netherlands (Amsterdam)
http://www.webwereld.nl/nav/nb?16724
You should now tell the world what building houses shipping and receiving. Please be explicit.
Read about it in a Mac Magazin…sorry for you but was it real? I mean, they ordered so many good Computers to invent their shit?
Quit your sniveling and whining, you big pussy. Go shove a Mac up your ass if you don’t like it. It’s no wonder you were a temp worker, no one in their right mind would want to hire an ungrateful hack like you. Here’s an employment idea, why don’t you go get a job as an AOL tech support represenative? It’s about all you are good for.
Looks like a Fake. If I ain’t looking at the Redmond Campus, I wont believe this Apples go into Microsoft. Okay, someone may compose it with Photoshop, but I can tell a truckload of DELL PCs enters the Apple campus just by photoing one of Michael Dell’s trucks offloading computers, without even the slightiest clue of Apple’s campus on the picture. Come on, don’t be such eekdiots!
i signed an NDA when i started work at my company, and was told specifically by the technical director that any photos taken in the office would violate that…so i don’t, except for events like birthdays which seems to be okay (read: i’m still employed). sorry to hear about your situation, hope that everything goes well for you
i suppose i should stay mum about the Sun boxes we have whirring over at Intel then.. uh. oops.
That is unjust! Where it is the liberty of speech?
The exact same thing happened to me when I was working for Wells Fargo Bank as their systems administrator. My manager called me into a room and said they did not like what I wrote about in my Live Journal. They never said exactly what it was they had a problem with only that I was fired because of the journal. I never mentioned names of anyone that I wrote about.
I have been unemployed for over a year.
You dumb shit jackass.
sorry to hear you lost your job.
“Big Daddy”, you’re not drunk, DrAvenarius is!
Hi Michael, I’ve been reading some of these comment posts. It’s interesting, isn’t it, when a little part of your life gets exposed in a public forum? Some people feel they have a right to call you names, and rant on like angry idiots. And some remind us that eloquence has a happy home in the blogosphere.
I’m sorry about what happened. Companies can be pretty edgy when it comes to security. It’s also a reminder that if you are an employee, blogging, unless for reasons pertaining to your job, belongs outside of the workplace. Same goes for personal emails, websurfing. People do it of course, but it can get them to trouble. Good luck to you. You’re a good writer, keep it up!
U should be happy that they’ve fired u. I mean who really wants to work for M$?
Apache Servers, Mac computers…..who said that microsoft isnt expanding its limits??
Uncle Bil, … , bad, bad dog.
Sue ‘um. You’ll get a settlement at the very least.
So much for freedom of fucking speech. I’d have never seen this if it wasn’t for those asses firing this guy for this. Nobody would have seen it. But now the world has. They write software for Crapintosh at Microlimp land. Why couldn’t they giggle and ask nicely to have it removed. Hell that dock could be any place in the world. But hry, fuck us all and our freedom of speech. Someone will eventually sue their company for this shit and win.
“”Do stupid stuff and get fired. Such a sad commentary on the world we live in”“
I feel sorry for the dude, but it’s called responsibility for your own actions. Not enough of it nowadays… Assuming that he signed some confidentiality clauses in taking the employment -
NDA + LEAK = SACK
Fair enough
No, I mean it…I LOVE Windows.
XP Pro is such a wonderful environment and the Office XP suite is awesome.
I love my PC more because of Bill Gates.
America ! Country of free speach ! hahaha, let me laugh.Your country seems to be the worst in term of liberty, an tolerance. How could you let these sort of thing append ? Will you accept to be traeted like slaves anylong ?
sorry for my english
I like you Michael, I’m really sorry about what appened to you.
PS : elise : don’t talk about security. If Micro$soft show trucks in front of redmond, people can take pictures. You can’t arrest or fire a reporter or a professionnal photographer because he took a embarassing picture. It’s only a deny of liberty.
You made news in Germany too:
http://www.onlinekosten.de/news/artikel/13083
Freedom of speech? How is freedom of speech related to taking photos which would violate his non-disclosure agreement. You’re starting to show your lack of intelligence.
And this isn’t really news to me, this kind of thing happens every day and what a dumb ass he is for even thinking that he would only get a slapped wrist for posting this material. You need to be slightly more intelligent and learn from other people’s mistakes, rather than your own.
In this day and age, every company has some sort of non-disclosure agreement put in place. And to all you people who think Microsoft are the only people who don’t tollerate this kind of activity, I can name two dozen big technology companies who have banned cameras (even camera phones) on site.
Esse Bill Gates é um Filho da Puta!!!!
Hello Michael, you are news here in Brazil because of your picture… congratulations, you demoralized the Microsoft…
You made news in Germany again:
http://www.netzeitung.de/internet/260064.html
Fuck Bill Gates!!!!
Happy G5
Hello. Greetings from France. So please excuse me for my bad english.
)
You should have been more cautious in choosing your employer. Remember Microsoft is a worldwide corporation, and corporations don’t like freedom at all (remember NDA, EULA, DRM, and so on…?). Not exactly what one could call “freedom” !
They like “security through obscurity”. You don’t have to know more than they wish, and you are not allowed to say anything if you’re not working for the propaganda (er… public relations) department.
Your only freedom while working in corporations is to pay for their services and to work like a slave as an employee in order to be able to pay their services.
Corporations are not democracy, but rather corporate republic. A corporate republic is a representative republic where the more money you have, the more power you have in thruth.
A democracy is a form of government where people take the decisions, not corrupted representatives (parliament, senate or whatever name).
As for a computer comparison, corporate republic could be a client-server model. The biggest server you have, the more customer you have, and they have to conform to your will in order to be processed. And democracy could be a peer-to-peer model, where you doesn’t have to ask an authorization in order to do anything.
It seems you are liking freedom, so I recommend you to work for an open-source employer. They aren’t NDAs nor EULAs (except GPL, which in short says “do what you wish”) in opensourcing, and you also have full freespeech rights.
You made news in Israel… http://net.nana.co.il/Article/?ArticleID=85787&sid=10
Somos Solidarios a sua causa, estamos com você Brazil. (We are Solidary you cause, we are with you Brazil)
Contact Apple and ask for a new job
Hello! > All over news in Brazil talk about your pic of G5 arriving in Microsoft > - That was amazing! >> You should register that “Even Microsoft wants G5” and sell it to Apple!!!!!! > Best regars! >
Maria - Made in Brazil
Se fudeu. Quem manda dar de engraçadinho? Agora tá no olho da rua.
Fuck Micro$oft and fuck all their users all over the world. Thank you and good night.
see: http://informatica.terra.com.br/interna/0,,OI200966-EI553,00.html
Foda-se, The Bill… Esta foto é a prova que você se rendeu ao MAC e está provando que está merda de Windows é um côco.
Continue conmpanheiro… denuncie…
MS fired a guy for blogging? I dont believe this, just tell me why this Suckers did it? It’s just a fuck blogg, I can put what i want, it’s mine, but get fired because of a photo, It seens like you dont have freedom of speech.
http://informatica.terra.com.br/interna/0,,OI200966-EI553,00.html
Como um cara pode ser burro ao ponto de postar uma foto dessa e nao pensar que isso poderia comprometer ó seu emprego. Como é burro.
Mas boa sorte no futuro.
you should post the full text of the NDA that you signed before becoming a temp. Sorry, I can’t sympathize all that much with you - the firing doesn’t have anything to do with what was on the pallettes. It could have been a few cases of Coke and the end result would be the same. Live and learn, next time don’t get too upset when you reveal to the entire world your personal life. No one really cares.
foda-se a microsoft
É isso mesmo!!!!! Que se ferre a micro$oft!!!!
PS: Naum sei se faria a mesma coisa!! hehehe
we’ve had run in’s with the corporate giant before now, its like they own everything, ah well bad luck matey i guess but at least we know M$ likes fruity pieces of electronics also
huahauhaa.. u r famous here in Brasil.. But, well, Microsoft sucks.. Why don’t u try get a job at the MAC company??
u make people see that even Microsoft want a G5.. so.. try to knock at the MAC company..
Bill Gates and the Microsoft = Evil’s Empire!!! They’re sucks…
F*** O** m$!!!!
Esse cara é muito corajoso e burro ao mesmo tempo, mas de qualquer forma gostei da coragem e mostrar ao mundo que a microsoft não é independente.
Agora vamos ver se pelo amor de Deus abaixe os valores do Microsoft.
uau… brasil em peso aki hein!!! uhehueuheuhueuheuheuheu fuck mico$oft!!!!
LINUX ROXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
slackware
HaHaHaHaHa !!! Nice !!! very good man !!!
Foda-se o tio bill , foda-se a microsoft !! mac na fita !!! hahahahahaha pau no cú desses filhos da puta q naum aceitam 1 brincadeira !!!
You should feel relieved you are no longer a part of a power-hungry company that shoves sub-par technology down everyone’s throats. Get yourself a 17 inch PowerBook, write a novel, and live comfortably on the royalties for the rest of your life.
You should feel relieved you are no longer a part of a power-hungry company that shoves sub-par technology down everyone’s throats. Get yourself a 17 inch PowerBook, write a novel, and live comfortably on the royalties for the rest of your life.
Microsoft can fuck their ears and computers anyway.
Sorry, Bill. You and me loose. Sorry
yet another reason to hate microsoft! how ridiculous…
mas bah tche, quem esta tal de maicrosofete pensa que eh ?! microsoft sucks ! kimble rulz !
Hi, hope you get a new jow soon!
You also made it to the press here in the Netherlands: http://www.webwereld.nl/gadgets/03_41.phtml
Good luck
Looks like Steve Jobs needs to hire this guy….
sorry you were fired for this…
Bill Gates and Microsoft are another example of the “axis of evil” that plaque the earth!
Good Luck Michael…
These Macs are more than likely heading to the MacBU department… Frankly I’m surprised they weren’t in there sooner…
Ok so it is not wrong for him to be mean to MS but it is wrong when MS is mean to him?
first i thought. cool! Microsoft get bonus points for buying G5!
then i read the result. and think this sucks! Microsoft get -ve -ve points for harassment. yet another nail in their coffin.
how many of you bloggers are using Microsoft OS etc? I’d advise you to drop it….even though they want you - the next version of their OS will have blogging capability. think of this guy before anything else
It is Microsoft’s right to decide who works for them. I definitely would not hesitate to fire anybody working for me who felt it was a good idea to take photos of anything business related and post them publicly, ESPECIALLY when those photos relate to a competitor. Your lack of common sense got you fired. What value would Microsoft possibly have in keeping you around? You have shown your employer that you cannot be trusted to use your better judgement. What is left?
Eheh microsoft sucks maicrosofete pensa que eh a rainha do mundo eheh
i really think its stupid thar microsoft fire some one just for a picture but life’s like that
É por isso que eu digo: “Viva o Software Livre, vida longa ao LINUX”. O Brasil domina!!!!
IN SURF WE TRUST!!!
Olha isso… fala sério… depois dessa eu falava pra todo o mundo como é a segurança lá na Microsoft… se eles querem te fuder, fode com eles antes.
I can’t belive that it is true… if i were u, i would run and tell EVERYBODY IN THIS FUCKING WORLD how does microsoft security works… if they want to fuck u, u should fuck them too!
BRASIL (with an S because this is how WE speel!!) RULEZ THE INTERNET!!
WE HAVE ALL OF THE BEST HACKERS EVER!
Sinto muito pelo seu emprego, mas que tal pedir um emprego na APPLE?
You did the right thing dude. We will kick bill gates’ ass with you
Dam about your job ay. Congratulations on getting the top spot in the Sci/Tech News section on google.
It is a very serious issue, this one about loyality towards your company getting into conflict with you rights to express your views in public and private. In this case I can hardly see that you actually harmed Microsoft or published secret informations. And that this could cause you to loose your job seems to show that Microsoft is a company in conflict with its own selfunderstanding … and probably with reality. One point though … if the photos in mention was take inside Microsoft AND in an area with very restricted access, then it is probably a correct decision to throw out people who break the rules. If this was the case, then the photographer should have used his head instead of his camera. But if the Photos was taken in a public area or from a public area, then the sacking would indeed have been a crime in a democratic country with proper trade union rights.
微软所作所为真让人感到羞耻。我想Jobs应该喜欢这位被解雇的微软朋友。。。
é isso ae… atitude!!! os produtos da MS ate que sao bons, o problema é o monopolio e os precos!!! pelo menos ele FEZ… e mostrou ao mundo o que a microsoft realmente é!!!! Gabriel Lisboa Salvadoir/BA
Fuck Microsoft in the ass
Cant belive it, they just kicked u out, shows the attitude of MS. U did nothing wrong, so my hunch is that they thought that u are on their tail. By sacking u, they blew their cover whatever it is, how stupid..
you were not a good employee,maybe you will be one after this:)
Good Luck!
Ahh Microsoft is just a large company and wants what all large companies want, to get bigger. The blog that was made obviously was not appropriate considering it is inside of a corperate building and should not be posted without consent of the company, but is seems foolish for Microsoft to fire the employee because now thousands are going to see the photo and thus generating mass embarassment for the mega corp. This whole matter is a messy joke and is something I’d expect to see in a tabloid :S. Ben Anderson
I don’t believe you, they fired you for an other reason and you want take your revenge against Microsoft.
Go apply at Apple with your story
Steve is a good guy, tell him Jas sent ya.
You obviously did not hit MS on anything, yet they hit you right in your ars#hole. Imagine how long that hole’s bruise will last my mate. Think before you want to hit something… especially if you want to hit the most desperate company in world.
Aos poucos vai se revelando a verdadeira cara do pessoal da MS… E pensar que o Steve tentou fazer um acordo com o Mr. “BG” no passado… People three hurras to the Big, really Big Apple!!!!
Lo siento que perdieras tu empleo…
la verdad Microsoft se pasa…
es tiempo de cambiar…
la mejor de las suertes
First off, taking a picture of some thing that’s public knowledge like that truck with a dozen G5’s in it is not something anyone could expect to get fired for.
Here’s an eye opener for all of you, especially the moron who says “don’t violate your non-disclosure agreement”!
If your employer bothers to have agreements that allow them to violate your rights according to the constitution, then do you NEED to work for them?
If your employer is willing to fire you for posting things like this, then do you NEED to stay working for them?
Heck, if you’re bright enough, you know enough to do what they do. Start a company in direct competition and try to make your own fortune instead of slaving away for your ex-boss.
U did news in Brasil too… http://informatica.terra.com.br/interna/0,,OI200966-EI553,00.html
Brasil with a S not with a Z the country is ours then we determine how and when Brasil in right speeled or not… And I´m thinking about changing to THE BRASIL… I´m going to THE BRASIL!! Ohh yes…
We Rock at the World Cups … We Rock on the internet … And we go to (the) U.S. I took the off… We are THE best! and fuck the big tits bitches!
LOL
Well, yeah, sorry for you.
I mean, you’re absolutely right. I don’t think you did anything but to display the trouth, and if ms is willing to scak you for this, it’s their fault.
Hope you find a new job soon. Try it at Apple
Good luck, K.
You’re a champ buddy, good luck in finding your new job. I beleive getting fired for this is a bit much though. So what if they got a few mac’s….
it’s not as though they don’t have a need for them… mac’s have some similar software… and testing things with macs might be a bit of a pre-req when actually developing anything for them … sheish. Talk about an overkill of a reaction.
Nice photo tho… live on!
Hello I am Andrew Retzer I’m from Germany
The shot is very silli, but i love it
M.f.g.: Andrew
Well well the news came to Denmark too
It´s only shows that Microsoft some good shit.
Sorry for you fellow
Heinz
Hi Michael,
Greetings from Germany!
F*** M$ ||| ApPLe RuLeZ!!!
This shows what will happen to us if we don’t stop monopoly. You, brilliant people, stop joining the Microsoft team. Support other alternatives. Diversity will bring safety to all of us. Long live Open Source.
Hi!
You should try getting a job at Apple
Hi!
Greatings from Sweden. You should try getting a job at Apple
Grande Compadre!!!
Parace que Bill mordió la manzana igual que Adán :S
Nice Pictures!!.
Po cara sinto muito pelo emprego, mas eu tb concordo que voce fez a coisa certa, a Apple apavora a Microsoft sem duvida… Como muitos falaram Tente um emprego na Apple, afinal voce provou ser um bom fotografo…hehehe!!!
Apple4ever…
dear michael
if a non-geek like me who lives in malaysia and who happens to dislike microsoft intensely knows about what you blogged, microsoft has succeeded in scoring a huge, worldwide own goal!
you made the front page of danish newspapers as well.
good luck with your job search.
HeY MaN,
WhAt yUo hAvE doNe iS WrOnG. Be “LOYAL” tO YoUr cOmPaNy (employer)
ChEeRs !
Hei, Im brazilian, and you are famous here, God bless you, but we… he, he, he… we just FUCK THE BILL GATES!!! and his MICO…SOFTS (LIKE MONKEYS SOFTS). Well, Im nobody, you know, and neither know how to speak your language very well, but I think that what he did is not a good thing. Here we use to smile of the fact. Come to my country, we have a lot of problems, but are still humans (like you of course).
Whoever pays you owns you… you gonna keep getting jobs then your’ll always be a slave to the person that signs your checks. Don’t be suprised if they decide to take your check away from you for whatever reason they want to. You want to call the shots, then you be the boss.
The G5 computers are for the Longhorn division, of course. How should MS be able to develop a new user interface for Windows without looking at the Mac? They really like traditions at MS and this is they way they always work.
Wow, that’s quite a trackback!
you just were right.good luck from the “old europe” lol
it’s so hot! very intersting and powerful hou
APPLE will out of sell。。。。。 苹 果 将 会 热 销 啦 苹 果 熟 了！
I tould you: Never trust in Bill Gate$…. Now, find a job…with Linux!
microsoft is bad, bad, bad… ;P
damn the man down with the empire.
I know exactly how you feel. I have made a very similar mistake. My deepest sympathy.
Live and learn. Don’t impugn the folks who pay you, especially if they explicitely prohibit against doing so in their policies such as “Sending or posting messages or material that could damage the Company’s image or reputation.”
It goes to show you how ruthless Micrsoft really is? I guess you can do anything when are declared a monopoly and get away with it?
Hey, you should get a job with SUN. Aleast their Star Office is getting to be a world class competitor against MS Office and at a fraction of the price of the new MS Office.
After seeing this type of employee abuse, it makes me think closely about the vendors I would choose to do business with. Microsoft will not be one of them if I could do anything about it.
Recondo
Ethical unprofessionalism at MS Headquarters…
In my opinion, if this whole scenario does NOT comply with the Company’s ‘Conflict of Interest’ Policy, then MS should be SUED! How does MS define exactly what a ‘Security Violation’ is?
Does this mean that if a shipment of SUN Sparcs showed up one day at MS (say for Res. & Dev. purposes, comparative OS Platform study, etc.) and another Photo was taken, what would be the case?
Similarly, just suppose that an employee in said R&D was previewing a Linux variant on his/her PC at the Office (eg. reviewing the new StarOffice for MS Office comparisons and another person decided to take a photo of said environment to post on a personal Website for family, friends to see what the workplace is like, and that Linux shot came out in the frame, what would be the case, who would get fired and for what reasons?
We do not know what are MS’ policies with regards to the aforementioned ‘Security Violations,’ hence it will be difficult to grade the situation. Whilst one has to sympathize with the guy, one might have to assume that MS is very, very secretive and tight-lipped about what goes on in their Compound.
If so, then their Employee Handbook (they must have one), should be explicit in detailing the use of photgraphy, departmental snapshots and security. Wonder if they’d fire someone for leaking the Box Design for the new OS when it comes out?
All in all, it seems quite an infantile, ridiculous thing to do to someone who was just pointing out the simple fact that many of the OS/Hardware players will always see what the competition has to offer.
What better way to do that, than to invest in a shipment, especially if you have a product division that caters to that market segment. My current IT department setup involves primarily Mac G3’s and G4’s, with some Solaris & NT/2000 Servers, but I would not mind having a SunBlade, G5 or a Dell to do more R&D.
Heck, I’d be proud to show off to the public that I’m embracing technologies from the competition. At least, it would demonstrate that I have a serious committment to supporting the products that I develop for them as well as testing them natively.
Too bad Microsoft, you’ve got too much pride, bad scruples and poor etiquette! Look at how Apple made the iPod and iTunes both Hardware & Software compatible for Windows. Although they did not have to do this (much to the annoyance of the Mac faithful), they’ll probably gain/win some new Windows users as clients/fans based on those 2 innovative steps with their products!
If you ask me, certain TechTV ‘staples’ and comments, does far more damage to Microsoft than any one random photo on the ‘Net! Like it or not, Apple and the Mac are here to stay, albeit their tiny share of the Market, but that’s what makes them great and capable of putting out far SUPERIOR products to many, many of their counterparts (including Microsoft)!
Shame on you Billy boy!!!
Well Security only works in the physical sense at Microsoft, not in the software sense, and thats why they bought G5’s
Microsoft promptly fired Hanscom for allegedly breaching confidentiality agreements that were a condition of his employment on the campus.
As far as Apple hiring him (as suggested in other posts), why should they? He’s proven his ability to breach confidentiality agreements with MS. I wouldn’t trust him to work for me!
Tech Guy
Seriously, what’s missing here is on what grounds they fired this man.
Pretty damn funny if they are being used for used for anything other then testing, which also hasn’t been established.
I can’t figure out who to ridicule more - the moron that thought that taking pictures at work and posting them on the web was a “good idea” ot the countless number of those above who thinks this demonstrates the “evil nature” of Microsoft!
How cow, I knew most people were clueless but seldom do you find such validation of it in one place.
Even Microsoft makes Macintosh software, so , yes they would need macs wouldnt ya think. MS is just being pissy about it how do you develop software for a Mac and test it on a PC anywayz????
I hope ya find employment soon guy.
Well, maybe the little fat fuck stole office supplies…maybe it had nothing to do with the pic…. Jesus, MS can fire who the hell they want….if you don’t wanna be part of it, go join some gay company like Apple instead….. Jeeeezus!
What is the best way to improve your products? Examining the competitor and make something better……. Easy….
You should go to work for apple, do commercials, make money that way. Just a suggestion.
I believe you Mike, no doubt. Hope you find yourselve a new job very soon. Try Apple in Cupertino…..!!!! Personally I think that if something similar happend at “The Infinity Loop” Apple’s CEO Steve Jobs would have laught his eyes out, and you’ll be probably awarded with some Apple Gadgets or even more !!!!
In the end it proofs that even good old Bill can’t live without real heavy stuff like the G5’s Within 3 weeks I receive my own Dual 2G. Can’t hardly wait….
Good Luck Mike Freek The Netherlands
Congratulations man! you also made the news in Mexico, I guess those G5´s are the new ground design for the next generation of PC´s hehehehe!!!!!
Steve Jobs better cash in on this!
The Wall Street Journal sucks!
I was fired from microsoft in 2004 for questioning them buying 6 apple computers, 12 xboxes and playstations for reverse engineering. They claimed I was a security threat. I just expresed my opinion. I worked there for 5 years. I now work at apple. hang in there dude.
WOW, they fire you because of that?!?
prout
Hello i am a kid (12 years old) of Argentina i can’t speak english good because i am only a kid, all the people have to fight to this actions, fire you are don’t a good act of Microsoft, I think you are a good man, but Microsoft don’t are good, are BAD people including Bill Gates, you can’t interview with te Microsoft acts but the people of the world can, I can live whit Linux, don’t are a bad software. Juan
Oh and reply to that…microsoft studios (the people behind xbox and xbox 360) they all have apple 30” monitors as their gaming tools I went on a tour of their building (virtually) and hahhaa
MACSxOWNZxYOURxSOULZZZZZxMICROSOFT!!!!!!!!!
I think it is about time the population of America started to take themselves a little less seriously. To me MS do seem to be an odd company. I think like most other companies they have too many managers that just want to justify thier jobs. I think the world would be a hell of a lot more productive if this crazy system was destroyed. I have experienced managers steeling ideas of their staff and passing them off as their own. Then guess who gets the bonus…. Ha Ha just remembered I got the sack from an American company in the U.K. because the CEO’s daughter fancied me and always wanted to work with me. I was just a Lab Tech and was removed instantly. They also got the arse with me leaving the premises at lunch time. They only would of have complained if I have of skinned up in the Lab.
OH MY GOD! THIS IS THE BEST THING I EVER READ! YET I STRONGLY BELIEVE THAT YOU SHOULDNT HAVE GOT FIRED FOR THIS. I THINK ITS UNFAIR. IF I WAS YOU, I WOULD SUE MICROSOFT (ALTHOUGH I LOVE MICROSOFT HEHE). YOU SEEM LIKE A VERY ETHICAL PERSON TO HAVE TAKEN NO ACTION. WAY TO GO AND GOOD LUCK IN LIFE!
MS missed out on some lines there pal. The ones that says, “Hopefully they’re all in good condition when they arrive…” They must have been so enraged that they didn’t noticed the concern that you have shown for their shipments. Or MS must be really that “insensitive” for not noticing that, that they have done the worst to you. Sigh Well, what can I say. Everything happens for a reason. Goodluck and God Bless you and your family..
Hi, nice site!
Fuk you Microsoft
Yall suck Badly…be smart make good decisons..but to damn bad yo didnt…….
Mike,
I’ve used LINUX and (begrudgingly) some MAC stuff but I’ve been a longtime user of MS products and most likely always will be. It is, however, so sad to see that MS has taken something so menial (and obviously not done maliciously) and made it so mountainous.
It seems to me that they are more embarrassed that they got ”caught” than anything. So, kudos to you, Mike for your humorous and ”honest” picture.
Shame on you, MS, for being to childish and petty as to terminate an (apparently) honest and upright guy.
Always remember, MS, if you don’t want to get caught doing something embarrassing, it’s probably a good idea to simply not do it to begin with.
I just came across this blog and photo and story about Microsoft. I am absolutely amazed at the hostility and name-calling engaged by some “people” (I use that term very loosely); they are in reality poisonous spiders and snakes “posing” as human beings. I am so glad I don’t and won’t ever have to work around people like them.
If this is what “corporate culture” is all about - no cameras, no cell phone cameras, no blogs, no freedom of speech, then it’s good to not be in that environment. Just because one wears (or has to wear) a white collar shirt and tie doesn’t mean they aren’t just as mistreated as the miners of old. Has anything really changed?
Slavery still exists, apparently, it just has another name: MICROSOFT and “CORPORATION.” The downfall of Rome is not far behind. Long live freedom and responsibility; the responsibility of choosing to live well, and to live and treat others humanely. It appears that this is just what you did. Whether you intentionally chose the “freedom” of unemployment or not. Surely there is something out there much better for someone as intelligent and kind as you.
What are you up to now? You sound like a really nice person; especially as you don’t blame Microsoft even when you, working for an outside independent contractor, hadn’t been informed of the rules. I would not find myself to be as charitable as you.
Thanks so much for such enlightening posts… Yours, Catherine Todd, ctodd1000@gmail.com
P.S. I use my real name on all my blogs and internet dealings as well. We have to be individuals and live without fear, or we are lost. I love my life and won’t let anyone take it away.
Continuing the Discussion