Rev. Karen Dammann
Current Affairs, Religion 03/19/2004 |I just found out about this from a headline yesterday, and hadn’t had a chance to look up any of the information until just now, but Bothell, WA has become the centerpoint of what could be a precedent-setting event within the Methodist church, as Rev. Karen Damman is in the midst of a church trial that could end up stripping her of her ordination — because she is a practicing homosexual.
The two reports I’ve found in the Seattle PI are more optimistic than I initially expected, though. While, of course, there’s no guarantee that she won’t be stripped of her ministry, some good points have been raised in the course of the trial.
From Methodists begin trial of gay minister:
In the Old Testament, the four places where homosexuality is addressed must be considered in the context of ancient Israeli civilization, said Kah-Jin Jeffrey Kuan, an ordained elder in the United Methodist Church and associate professor at the Pacific School of Religion in Berkeley, Calif.
The story of Sodom and Gomorrah in the book of Genesis is about the condemnation of violence and wickedness, not homosexuality, he said. Other instances call homosexuality an “abomination,” a term Kuan said does not carry the weight many attach to it now. “An abomination is ultimately a practice that is religiously, socially and culturally unacceptable in Israelite society,” he said. Under cross-examination, Kuan conceded that other scholars interpret the same material differently. The New Testament scholar said of four instances where the issue of homosexuality appears, all written by the Apostle Paul or his direct followers, only one merits consideration. The others lack a scholarly basis for examination, said Mary Tolbert, who also teaches at the Pacific School of Religion. Condemnations of things such as divorce are much stronger and are made by both Jesus and Paul, she said. The Methodist Church allows its ministers to divorce. “It seems to me if you’re going to say one verse in Romans is enough to remove a person, and their calling and all this other stuff is overlooked, then with all due respect, it seems to me you’re acting hypocritically,” said Tolbert, who later asked jurors not to replicate the crucifixion of Jesus by finding Dammann guilty.
And from Scholar challenges church case against gay minister:
A leading scholar on United Methodist law challenged the central point of that church’s entire case against a lesbian minister on trial here yesterday.
“In my considered opinion and judgment, the United Methodist Church has never declared the practice of homosexuality to be incompatible with Christian teaching,” said Jack Tuell, a retired bishop viewed by many as a top authority on the church’s rulebook, the Book of Discipline. Tuell made the explosive charge during the second day of testimony in the church trial of the Rev. Karen Dammann, a United Methodist minister who has publicly acknowledged that she is in a relationship with another woman. The trial could end today and, if found guilty, Dammann may be stripped of her ordination. Counsel for the church said the statement was a powerful challenge to their case, but called the testimony just “one man’s opinion.” “His opinion is not law. He’s not God. The General Council (the church’s legislative body) has not interpreted any of this the way Jack Tuell interpreted it today,” said the Rev. James Finkbeiner in an interview. He is arguing the case for the church.
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p>I’ll be keeping an eye out to see where this one ends up.
iTunes: “Crablouse, The (It’s There to Stay)” by Lords of Acid from the album Crablouse, The (1994, 5:08).
[See also: Congratulations Rev. Dammann! | Lesbian minister re-frocked | Interpreting the Bible | Love Battle | ‘Under God’ in the Supreme Court ]
9 Responses to “Rev. Karen Dammann”
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March 19th, 2004 at 4:55 pm
Of course the one that always get me is is we’re really made in “God’s likeness,” then God must be one fucked being considering how many variations of human there are and how many deviations from man-woman-missionary position there are - as well there should by, btw. This just means that all religions suck and - without inviting a flame war - anyone who takes religion seriously needs serious psychiatric help, a life, some self-esteem or all three.
March 20th, 2004 at 4:08 pm
Congratulations Rev. Dammann!
In a quick update to a story from two posts back…Rev. Dammann has been acquitted!
March 20th, 2004 at 9:44 pm
Bumper sticker of relevancy: “God does not favor any group. Religions do.”
March 22nd, 2004 at 5:53 am
You all make me sick! Being gay is so wrong and no matter how much you doctor up the bible to say what you want it to say you our still wrong! The Bible pointed out in sodom that when the angle came down and where in the town that Lot told them to come into his house cause it was not safe outside. WHY cause the men of the town where asking Lot to open his door and let them “KNOW” the men inside. The key word KNOW meaning they wanted to have sex with them. They where gay and Lot know that and that is why he protected the angels for men of such low morals. This pastor has no ministry cause i can say for sure that God does not give power and ministrys to gays that piss on his word and try to ripe apart the bible and make it say what they want.
March 22nd, 2004 at 7:28 am
I think that no matter that Rev. Dammann annonced that she was a Lesbian doesn’t give anyone the right to throw her out of the church, because on what she is. The people who wanted her to be prosector on being a lesbian was wrong, I think that she has the right to do on what she please. And God never said to critize peopleand to commdamn them no matter if their gay, bisexual, or etc. People should remember on what the Bible says. I support Rev. Dammann all the way.
March 22nd, 2004 at 8:35 am
RIGHT ON, KOPALA!!! At last someone is reading the Bible instead of all this junk condoning the homosexual lifestyle (which seems to be gaining momentum in the past few months with these so-called same-sex marriages). Furthermore, besides the episode in Genesis, there is another episode in the next-to-last chapter of Judges. That led to the tribe of Benjamin being reduced to 600 men. The Bible says what it means and means what it says (in 400 AD as it was in 1611, and as it is in 2004 AD).AND ACCORDING TO GENESIS, IT IS ADAM AND EVE, NOT ADAM AND STEVE AND NOT MADAM AND EVE.
March 22nd, 2004 at 9:12 pm
Anyone has the right in the USA to be anything they want to be, as long as it is legal. But when you give that right to a person who has taken vows to uphold the scripture of the Bible and to lead people in the worship of God, this puts a different light on the subject. Everyone has the right to be a homosexual, but they don’t have a right to flaunt it to the public. I know two lesbians who are totally happy with their life. You would never know their lifestyles, they do not “come out” to flaunt it. They are very nice people. But they are not ministers of a church, leading the people to the word of God. Rev. Karen Dammonn does not have a right to do this. She is not worthy. I am not worthy, and I am a male just trying to live my life as Christ wants me to. I only try to follow what the scripture tells me. If you follow sensible thinking, you will have to agree. Grace and Peace. Neil Posey
April 27th, 2004 at 4:14 pm
Hooray for Rev. Dammonn. I just read Neil Posey’s letter and just want to go on the record that he is apparently an ignorant bastard. We have the right to be homosexuals but not flaunt it? What do you mean? I have the right to hold my partner of 10 years hand as I walk through my neighborhood. I do not fluant my sexual practice to noone and nor should straight couples. I do not kiss My partner in public and nor should straight people. That is what we call tacky. The verdict with Rev. Dammon is just one step closer to equal rights for homosexuals. Imagine if african americans did not stand up and fight? We would probably still have segregation because of people like you. Who are you to say that she is not worthy, that is judging others, in which the bible says not to do. I hope that you sleep good at night knowing you treat fellow humans the way you do.
April 29th, 2004 at 7:59 am
The issue is very simple: Is homosexuality a sin? According the Methodist Church source of authority “The Book of Discipline” it is “incompatable with Christian teaching”. Also, before one becomes a Methodist minister one must take a vow to be “faithful in marriage or celibate in singleness;” The right thing for Karen Dammann to do was step down from the ministry for the Methodist denomination since she no longer abided with their doctrinal statements. That would have been honest and honorable. But instead, she put the church through a court case which is typical gay strategy when it comes to changing current laws and doctines. Now the Methodist denomination has to face its members with a trial that seriously weakened their souce of authority (Book of Discipline and the Bible) by skirting around those passages which denounce homosexuality as a sin. In the end, the denomination will split because the Methodist demonination will appear to approve a sin that is clearly condemned by the Book of Discipline and the Bible.