It’s not my fault IE sucks. Get a real browser.
Technology, Website May 3rd, 2004 |I expected this, of course, but it’s still a bit disheartening. I spend a lot of time working up a change to my site design, get the basics up and running, just have a bit of tweaking to do…and then I take a few moments on a break from work and take a look at it under Internet Explorer 6 for Windows.
And cringe.
And you know what? I don’t care. I’m not even going to bother fixing the various oddities that crop up under IE. It’s not worth the time, trouble, and headaches that it would entail.
It comes down to this, quite simply: Internet Explorer sucks. It’s buggy, shares responsibility for many of the security issues in Windows, offers far to many ways for people to compromise your system, and doesn’t support modern web standards. Sure, I know that IE makes up somewhere over 90% of the web browser market, and I know that because of that, it’s quite likely that somewhere over 90% of the people who stumble across my site won’t be seeing it the way that they should.
I don’t care.
Thanks in part to the fact that I do pay attention to modern web design techniques and standards, people using IE are quite able to read my site. All the information is there, it’s just not presented how it should be. But that’s not my fault — it’s IE’s fault — and that’s not worth me worrying about.
As proposed by Tim Bray, Eclecticism now joins the “Use a Better Browser” campaign.
If you were looking at this in any browser but Microsoft Internet Explorer, it would look and run better and faster.
Microsoft’s Internet Explorer may currently have the largest market share, but it has been stagnating for a while. There will be no new Internet Explorer version until Microsoft’s next operating system. It won’t be available for several years and you’ll need to pay for Windows to get it. Meanwhile, other web browsers have been innovating and are becoming more and more popular. Today, these browsers run faster and look better than Internet Explorer. By using a better browser your experience will be better. Plus, you will help to foster a competitive environment in which browser technology can continue to innovate and make everyone’s web experience more pleasant and exciting.
<
p>So that’s that.
Get Firefox. Get Opera. Get Konqueror. Get a Mac and use Safari.
Just get away from IE.
iTunes: “Glory (Cajun Dub)” by K.M.F.D.M. from the album Glory (1993, 5:31).
[See also: Beating Internet Explorer into the 21st Century | Site design: why CSS? | Credit where credit is due | Browser Daydreaming | It’s still not my fault… ]
« Happy Birthday to me, new site design | Happy birthday, Kevin! »
54 Responses to “It’s not my fault IE sucks. Get a real browser.”
Leave a Reply
Michael Hanscom
Ryan Waddell
Michelle
Curt
Jess
May 4th, 2004 at 12:07 am
If you want the tagline to just be shown to IE users, you may want to use a CSS attribute selector:
div[id=”IE”] { display: none; }
<div id=”IE”>It’s not my fault IE sucks. Get a real browser.</div>
(via this csszengarden design)
(sorry, I know it’s unsolicited, but there’s no point screaming at non-IE users)
May 4th, 2004 at 1:59 am
I hear you! I was forced to rewrite my last 2 websites from the ground up to make sure they looked semi-decent in IE. So It didn’t take 10 sec. for me to put that “Better Browser” button up on my site.
Maybe we should do more then put up a banner… maybe we can take a screenshot of how a page SHOULD look and put it on a page for IE-sufferers to compare it with the **** they are getting displayed.
Tomb
P.S. On a different note… I guess something must be wrong with my cache or stuff, ‘cos I’m still getting a 1 column view of this site (Safari 1.2.1 OSX 10.3.3)
May 4th, 2004 at 2:13 am
I’m a pc user who uses firefox.. I love it :-p
May 4th, 2004 at 2:32 am
Use a better browser
Ieri sono stato l
May 4th, 2004 at 2:53 am
Maybe we should do more then put up a banner… maybe we can take a screenshot of how a page SHOULD look and put it on a page for IE-sufferers to compare it with the **** they are getting displayed.
yes please, it’s a great idea, i’d like to see that. i was kind of wondering why this site looked so crummy today, why was the new design so ugly, and now i know. just let me see what i’m missing then. since i read you from work, there isn’t much i can do to change my browser here. sigh
sara
by the way, feliz cumpleños michael!
.s.
May 4th, 2004 at 2:57 am
That’s a nifty trick, Firas, I may look into that. I didn’t mean to come across as “screaming at non-IE users”, I was just frustrated with IE (not an unusual occurrence). I’ll probably change the tagline to something else before too long, but it’s good for right now.
Tomb — I’ve occasionally had to “force” Safari to recognize a new stylesheet by loading just the stylesheet in Safari (here, it would be styles.css), then forcing a refresh, then going back to the page itself, at which point it displays correctly. Safari’s caching seems to be a bit overzealous at times.
May 4th, 2004 at 4:48 am
I switched to Firefox even on my work PC… I think my sysadmin is happier for it as it’s one less user using IE.
However, I would recommend against using Opera - not only is it bloated and ad-filled (unless you buy it), it’s also buggy and not all that well supported. Why would you buy Opera when you can get Firefox for free?
May 4th, 2004 at 5:35 am
Use a better browser
From Michael Hanscom, I’ve also joined the “Use a Better Browser” campaign. I’ve been trying to get any one who
May 4th, 2004 at 5:37 am
Happy Birthday.
Have you taken a look at the IE7 stylesheet that’s been created to help IE better support CSS standards?
May 4th, 2004 at 7:26 am
I feel your frustration. I recently viewed our company’s web site in Firefox and one part of it was not aligned properaly. It was a small part, but I was wanting perferction. So, I corrected it to look good in Firefox, but it looked bad in IE. The new version I’m working on so far looks good in both. I wish I could just allow it look good in Firefox, but since it is a company web site, I need to make sure that it works fine in IE since all our clients use IE.
May 4th, 2004 at 9:55 am
bethlet: Thank you! I’d taken note of that project when it first appeared, unfortunately it wasn’t yet available for download at that time, and I hadn’t gone back to dig the link out and see if it had been released yet. Looks like I’ve got another project for tonight…!
May 4th, 2004 at 10:29 am
Working for IE is amazingly frusterating but if you’re a web designer, it’s a requirement. I actually think that learning to use CSS in a way that conforms to the standards of Safari 1.2, Firefox and IE 6 (the platforms that I design to work with) allows me to learn CSS more throughly. I’ll still be happy when I can create something and have the standard visual across the board though.
May 4th, 2004 at 11:15 am
i really disagree with your stance on this.
ie is a crappy browser, obviously i don’t disagree with that.
but your attitude to your visitors is really rude and not at all on par with the level of maturity i’ve known and respected you for. if you want to inform your IE visitors that this page will not render properly in that browser at this time, you can do that in a far more professional way than this snobby, childish, stubborn crap.
geek snobbery will not encourage nor convince people to get a better browser.
finally, all you have to do to fix your layout for IE is subtract a few pixels from the width of one of your columns. IE’s box model is fuckered, and so what i did for my redesign was to give it 10 pixels of fudge room (container=500, left(floated)=300, right(floated)=190 — leaving 10 pixels space between left and right). Once I did that, everything was happy.
drop ten pixels from your content column - it doesn’t make a huge difference to what you can put there, but it gives you more white space between your columns (which you need anyway) and should fix the problem.
quit being an ass, you’re better than that.
May 4th, 2004 at 2:37 pm
Hey, you got a linklog!
Anyway, I doubt the IE7 hack can do anything about the rendering engine (and hence the box model). From a purist standpoint, what’s actually going on here is that IE6 is a legacy browser that needs to be dealt with. Graceful degradation is the whole point, isn’t it? One might as well use tables otherwise. So if an IE user can’t use a site built with modern standards, they should just tell their brower to drop the author-suggested styles. The site will then work just fine.
(I’m just thinking out loud about web authoring philosophy, not suggesting a course of action in this case. kirsten’s comment is probaby all that’s needed to fix this one.)
May 4th, 2004 at 3:18 pm
Campaña.
Via la bitácora Michael Hanscom, me encuentro con la propuesta para un mundo mejor con mejores navegadores. Para nadie es secreto el poco soporte que tiene IE en relación a los estándares en el mundo Web. Y como en este
May 4th, 2004 at 3:34 pm
:: shrugs :: I’m using IE. It looks just fine (a little more plain than it was before, but no bugs appear to me). I’ve got Opera, but it’s only used for…while, I think I just need to say the “Delete Private Data…” function is worth keeping it around for.
May 4th, 2004 at 4:30 pm
I use IE6 on the PC and Safari on the Mac so I guess I’m only half crazy?
Kirsten has a point, a simple tag that says.
“This site best viewed on Safari, Opera, etc.” or “Some functions on this blog don’t render properly in IE, Isn’t it time to step up and try something better? I recomend Safari.”
Works just as well and doesn’t sound whiney. But then again its your blog and you can do as you please and I would support you in any decision that you made, including not setting it up to work on 90% of the computers that your readers will be using.
May 4th, 2004 at 5:02 pm
i just saw one other reason why your page may be breaking in IE. the image from your funny google ad post is wider than your content column, and so it might force the column to be wider than you’ve designated (which is dumb) and thus shove the sidebar down to the bottom.
it used to happen in my sidebar whenever someone entered a long string of unbroken text in comments.
May 4th, 2004 at 6:00 pm
Key point for me is this “But then again its your blog and you can do as you please”
I have supported firefox through three name changes. With tabbed browsing, a added pop-up stopper, and plugins to help with anything else I can’t see myself going back to IE. Viva la (browser) revolution.
May 4th, 2004 at 8:44 pm
It’s still not my fault…
IE still sucks, and it’s still not my fault.
However, progress has been made on that front, thanks to the absolutely mindblowingly incredible technical wizardry of Dean Edwards’ IE7 hack.
May 4th, 2004 at 9:06 pm
Hey, Michael. Great rant. Couldn’t agree with you more. I use Camino, IE and Safari - mostly Safari. But, get this, IE 5.2 for Mac OSX is THE ONLY BROWSER on OSX which can correctly render TV Guide’s grid correctly - so guess what, I keep IE around just so I can use TV Guide online. Even pure excrement has its purpose.
May 4th, 2004 at 11:04 pm
While, I downloaded Firefox. I can truly say I see almost no difference between the firefox display and the IE display. Except, firefox’s font sizes are off from what I am used to and the comment form boxes are misaligned. Mouse-wheel scrolling is disabled as well and click-and-hold mousewheel scrolling is jerky at best. I guess the problem is Windows XP. But, it isn’t my computer so I cannot go that far. The normal Windows control+(direction) are half-operational as well. Remind me again why I downloaded it? Opera’s just as picky and I don’t feel like for four different web browsers in one night. I suppose I could just go back to using Lynx and then start complaining about all this GUI business altogether.
May 5th, 2004 at 12:29 am
Have you tried the tabbed navigation, Robert?
Did you know you can change the font size on any page quickly by using ctrl + plus key or ctrl + minus key? Try it. (You can also change the default font through options and keep it persistent despite what the author wants if you wish.)
Check out the extensions and see if there’s anything you like. SmoothWheel might solve your problem.
If the GUI seems bland, maybe a theme can help.
The main reason you see no difference is that professional web designers have to cater to IE6. And lose half the functionality HTML/CSS in the process.
/done with advocacy :p
May 5th, 2004 at 9:22 am
Ny the by, you can adjust the font size in IE6 on the fly via holding ctrl and moving the mouse wheel. You could do that since IE 5
May 5th, 2004 at 10:49 am
Kevin: no you can’t. Resize this.
(And if IE wasn’t so crappy I could actually serve that as XML, which it is, and not HTML, which is the only way IE will display it. Quite stupid given that the XHTML spec was published four years ago. Heck, even this site we’re discussing on is XHTML posing as HTML). I don’t see why anyone would inflict IE on themselves. Paying for past sins?
May 5th, 2004 at 11:22 pm
doesn’t look that much difference in ie than firefox. The only obvious difference is the extra “use a different browser” in the top right. There’s nothing more annoying than websites coming back and saying “you should use ie” when you report a problem with a webpage because it doesn’t work with firefox - likewise, its just as annoying to say “don’t use ie”.
May 6th, 2004 at 7:26 pm
Chas, if you’re looking to dump MSIE but still want access to TV Guide’s online listings, try Karelia Software’s Watson. I live by it.
May 7th, 2004 at 5:50 am
Greyhound - II
Don’t use IE! [via eclectism] Get a Real Browser.
May 13th, 2004 at 4:55 pm
IE sucks
I got a look at Pharyngula on a PC running Internet Explorer today, and it was a little bit cringeworthy. I saw what long comments did to the page—stretching
June 2nd, 2004 at 1:51 am
Smoke screens ala Scoble
Microsofts Scoble in an opinion piece titled “Nigel says that Microsoft hates the Web”: I’m running Mozilla’s Firefox on Longhorn…
June 30th, 2004 at 12:24 am
I am all for flaming IE at this point. My site is a cluster phuck right now because I validated code using w3c and sanity checked it against IE. So, I have the inverse problem of what a real web developer would have. I just wish either would happen: someone would make an editor that wouldn’t allow for cross-browser-compatabilty problems || the w3c wasn’t just a consortium building a standard, that they where an implementing body that built core libraries that browser developer’s used as a module code base for display, everything else like java implementation would give them something to work on. If only we didn’t have issue with ppl installing viri and spyware onto browser it could be possible to distribute a valid html parser using the same methods shockwave uses. A mozilla plugin for IE ??? I do want to give the editor of this site props I love your code, and am picking up some coding habits of it or atleast trying to. On the last note, i am somewhat pissed of at third party browsers as it relates to giving the develop no contol over pre-defined user style sheets. If I work my ass off to style a form and its buttons leave them alone by default, if not by default by mention of a style sheet. Maybe this is a lacking within my coding, im unsure but with all the disriminations one has to make as a webdeveloper I dont blame myself for not knowing.
August 23rd, 2004 at 2:58 am
………… uhmmmmm…………. opera’s the best
September 21st, 2004 at 8:10 pm
how do i make google seach functional on my web site i am new to computer thanks jd
September 24th, 2004 at 4:57 am
Hi, i’am a .Net web developer with a MCAD certification. First at all, the big difrences between IE and other browsers is that it supports every protocoll witch is available for javascript, vbscripts, old style codes, the new style codes(W3C), webforms, objects, applets and DOM refrences. The rest like ASP.NET/PHP and such kinda modules are part of the webserver. Plus microsoft also thinks about the people who don’t understand all of this realy good and gives some reactions on code so that the programmer don’t have to think verry difficult. Like when you give a window.location a parameter the site will directly refresh. This wasn’t the real purpose because you need to give a location en write after that window.replace(‘url’) and not reload because than your cache will not be read but refilled. It’s a litle example on how microsoft wan;t to support everything so that you have a standard or you can call it a big pile of shit. But the most important thing is it works. And i can write a spyware program for mozzila, firefox or netscape with no problem, the only reason it doesn’t happens is because of the amount of users.
So i don;t think that you can give IE a disrespect because it handles alot of rules in a time a otherbrowser would dream of.
September 25th, 2004 at 5:42 pm
As a physical therapist we are told time and time again that it serves no purpose to teach a patient to run when he can’t even walk.
This applies to IE as well. What’s the use of all these “protocols” when IE doesn’t manage to correctly parse a .PNG or a website using CSS-standards?
What’s the use in being able to “bank online” using vbscripts (or whatever it’s used for) when you don’t have the absolute guarantee that the data is secure? I think when a company’s own head of security and the US Government openly question the safety of a product… you seriously need to ask yourself if it’s “OK” to keep using that product.
Besides… I wouldn’t go as far as saying IE “works” because it doesn’t. Not the way it should.
September 28th, 2004 at 5:19 am
Now your talking about a compleet ilusion, total control. And the bank thing you mention is only secure when the programmer made it secure, not IE.
September 28th, 2004 at 5:44 am
I’m not very educated on matters of encryption… but still I “feel” a lot safer when my sensitive data is send across the internet through the hands of a browser that has no blatant security issues… unlike IE.
Correctly adopting a standard (either CSS or PNG) as other browsers have done doesn’t seem to me as an illusion. It is more like a necessity. As a designer there is nothing more frustrating then designing a web standard compliant website that correctly passes W3C-validation and then having IE f*ck it up for no clear reason. No ruler faulty displays inches or centimeters and has it’s manufacturer claiming that it’s “OK”, as long as it works…
January 26th, 2005 at 8:39 am
Funny stuff - I noticed free e-mail @explorersucks.com
It is at http://www.explorersucks.com/email/
By the looks of the main page, they support Firefox.
June 25th, 2005 at 3:24 pm
I’ve been using Firefox for around a year now and I’ll never go back. IE has been given ample time to fix it’s known bugs and security issues, yet it fails to do so….
August 6th, 2005 at 6:25 am
IE does SUCK. I recently switch to Firefox and it IS a good browser!
August 11th, 2005 at 8:06 am
Opera is streets ahead of Firefox. To give Firefox a similar level of functionality to Opera, you have to download and install a heap of extensions, turning Firefox into a bloated, compartmentalised, unstable mess with an inconsistent UI. With Opera, all the great features are there from the start. It is more stable and renders more quickly than an extension-laden FF install.
…and Opera’s MDI browsing is much better than Firefox’s tabbed browsing. When will Firefox allow us to drag tabs around?!?
OK, so it costs money. Considering how much of your life it spent browsing the net (10,000 hours in your lifetime if you use the net for just 30 mins a day!), don’t you think it’s good value?
January 13th, 2006 at 4:57 pm
stupid punks, firefox supports only basic values. and me, as a programmer, hate that fact. okay, I know IE has a lot of unnecessary features and I know these features aren’t obligatorily by all that w3c-shit, but it’s just to make things possible… oow, and firefox is a safer browser???! I have got my computer for 2 years now (using IE), there is still no single virus on it. and what about a popup-blocker, IE has one. and firefox even blocks the popups that must be shown.
next time, use some good arguments, not the ones your daddy told you.
bye, ff-bitches
March 19th, 2006 at 1:02 am
I used IE all my life, then learned of fire fox and used it, now i’d never go back to IE, but unfortuantly i still have to make sites viewable for IE.
I don’t bother with anything less than IE 6, if they’ve got lower then they should update, its free. If they feel like it, they should try another browser, they won’t regret it
March 26th, 2006 at 4:44 pm
IE6 is updated with SP2 of windows. btw MS is working on IE7
March 29th, 2006 at 5:54 am
‘It’s not my fault IE sucks. Get a real browser.’
Hey, thanks. These are true words. I am actually working on a crossbrowser drag and drop class and as often as I find differences between the browsers its usually the IE that: a.) does not support the function/attribute b.) has a different function/attribute or just named differently c.) is just buggy
I read an article where microsoft developers themsselves admitted that they had some weird ideas about the IE while developing it. And, who wonders ? Most of the IE Developers must have learned programming whule developing some version of Windows, and we all know this highly secure and mostly bug-free operation system.
So do yourself, me and the whole WWW a favor: delete your IE-folder and install some kind of Mozilla browser.
April 1st, 2006 at 3:25 am
Yes, it’s 90% of the web that’s wrong and you’re right.
Stop crying and learn to design for the REAL standards. Microsoft owns the market and you “rebels” will still be crying 20 years from now.
Some jackass posted here.. “Get Firefox. Get Opera. Get Konqueror. Get a Mac and use Safari.”
What are you? Stupid?
Get a life you idiot. Of those 90% that use IE how many do you think will run out and buy a Mac, download 5 or 6 browsers just to see 2% of the web the way YOU see it?
Oh by the way, I’ve got this really nice comfy chair I want to sell you… oh, but you will need to download a New Ass in order to sit in it and enjoy it like I do.
Yeah, you Dummies make a lot of sense.
April 4th, 2006 at 9:34 am
@ IE hasser: i’m glad to see your message. It’s very long but it contains allready an argument… you’re talking about functions and attributes? yeah that’s right, IE doesn’t support them all and got it’s own tags, but most off these functions you talk about aren’t even standard to html and all that w3c-shit, but IE uses their tags, so u can make your function work. oh, and maybe it’s another tag in FF, but you think when FF uses that tag, it’s the standard html-tag…
@tom: fool, i can design for the real standards, but IE is my recommended browser, because it’s features are very handy. and what’s your problem with someone’s opinion? watch this: “IE does SUCK. I recently switch to Firefox and it IS a good browser!” i just picket it out from one of the coms above. what does it say? nothing, he thinks it’s better because a fool said it to him…
June 25th, 2006 at 4:52 pm
Man! Once you wind up a Lover-of-Bill-with-bad-english don’t you get flamed! I have 2 questions for IE converts (misnamed html tags aside): 1. Where would manage my stored passwords and forms ? 2. Why can’t I open URLs in tabbed windows ? Why must I spawn another instance of IE to preserve my current page and yet follow links at the same time ?
okay that’s 3 questions - but one was a paraphrase.
I always point out to my couldn’t-care-less IE friends (I dont’ bother fighting the dyed in the wool ones) that an awful lot of people drive fords and not many drive porches.
(Opera - I could never get rid of the scroll bars !)
Can I use the “Use a Better Browser” logo thingy ? I followed some of the links but they go nowhere.
July 8th, 2006 at 4:42 pm
dude, i’m dutch and i don’t need your feedback about my english, because i know you don’t even understand one single word in dutch…
okay, your questions… 1. i don’t know where i could manage them in FF as well. 2. Try IE7.
and the rest of your bullshit has nothing to do with the subject of this topic.
August 22nd, 2006 at 1:00 pm
Werd!
I linked this page to my note about how IE won’t work on my site. Mind if I use the X-ed out IE logo?
-ForteTwo
October 31st, 2006 at 12:37 pm
ff-hater, you are stupid. If you really understand this (and you don’t), you have to know that IE was only designed to get as much parts of the browser market as possible, and to destroy other browsers, not for the benefit of the customer. That’s is why it’s integrated in win95C and later. Functions in IE, if present, are copied from other browsers. IE can’t even render W3C html correctly. Other browsers can do it. You must be one of those fools who have voted LPF and love Pim Fortuyn. Go fuck yourself and think of IE.
November 8th, 2006 at 6:19 am
dear mr. ff-hater dont be alarmed to this! This is not to offend in any way but your a moron. serioulsly, anyone who is anyone already knows that Microjunk steals from everybody. Look at vista, its a combo between linux, macintosh, and IBM. so its no wonder they cant get things to work right. everyone knows that windows systems are meant to crash. they are not just exploited because everyone uses their software, they’re exploited because they’re easier. dont be an idiot if you must use windows get xplite or something like it. get rid of IE altogether and switch to something else. IE allows viruses and other attackers to take over you computer. get educated on this google the dangers of IE. Do you like system crashes and errors. most of them come from IE
November 8th, 2006 at 6:27 am
dear mr. ff-hater dont be alarmed to this! This is not to offend in any way but your a moron. serioulsly, anyone who is anyone already knows that Microjunk steals from everybody. Look at vista, its a combo between linux, macintosh, and IBM. so its no wonder they cant get things to work right. everyone knows that windows systems are meant to crash. they are not just exploited because everyone uses their software, they’re exploited because they’re easier. dont be an idiot if you must use windows get xplite or something like it. get rid of IE altogether and switch to something else. IE allows viruses and other attackers to take over you computer. get educated on this google the dangers of IE. Do you like system crashes and errors. most of them come from IE
November 8th, 2006 at 6:32 am
dear mr. ff-hater dont be alarmed to this! This is not to offend in any way but your a moron. serioulsly, anyone who is anyone already knows that Microjunk steals from everybody. Look at vista, its a combo between linux, macintosh, and IBM. so its no wonder they cant get things to work right. everyone knows that windows systems are meant to crash. they are not just exploited because everyone uses their software, they’re exploited because they’re easier. dont be an idiot if you must use windows get xplite or something like it. get rid of IE altogether and switch to something else. IE allows viruses and other attackers to take over you computer. get educated on this google the dangers of IE. Do you like system crashes and errors. most of them come from IE