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	<title>Comments on: Misogyn•E</title>
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	<link>http://www.michaelhanscom.com/eclecticism/2007/10/03/misogyn%e2%80%a2e/</link>
	<description>Violently Apathetic</description>
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		<title>By: Celeste</title>
		<link>http://www.michaelhanscom.com/eclecticism/2007/10/03/misogyn%e2%80%a2e/comment-page-1/#comment-97493</link>
		<dc:creator>Celeste</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 17:23:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaelhanscom.com/eclecticism/2007/10/03/misogyn%e2%80%a2e/#comment-97493</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;I have seen Wall-E a few days ago and, personally, I was delighted.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Of course, that might have been due to the fact that I watched it for what it was worth in my own mind, i.e. a beautifully orchestrated familly movie (not to mention baren of pop-culture jokes and sing-along songs; PIXAR be blessed!!!!) and didn&#039;t seek to attach too heavy and sordid social undertones to it.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I am a woman and I didn&#039;t feel threatened at all by any &#039;message&#039; or roles in that movie.  Actually, I don&#039;t see anything negatively sexist in the Buy n Large robots aforementioned.  It is a proven fact that women are still predominantly involved with housework and that men most often take care of &#039;heavier&#039; or dirty jobs like landscaping or garbage removal. I don&#039;t think this is shocking or even bad.  It just seem to be a natural trend.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;To me, a misogynistic portrayal of a female character would be if that character is presented as inherently stupid, or inept, or in some way contemptuous solely because it is female.  The mere fact of portraying a female as a love interest or doing traditionally &#039;female&#039; things isn&#039;t necessarily negative.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I think it is getting to be a bit of a social hysteria; the urge and trend to create characters and character line ups almost SOLELY to enforce politically correct rules.  While that isn&#039;t wrong in itself, I find it creates very contrived stories and art.  A story like Wall-E doesn&#039;t in ANY way encourage or promote contempt, hatred or dismissal of women.  It is a story written for its own purpose and, I found, very honest and candid in its delivery.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have seen Wall-E a few days ago and, personally, I was delighted.</p>

<p>Of course, that might have been due to the fact that I watched it for what it was worth in my own mind, i.e. a beautifully orchestrated familly movie (not to mention baren of pop-culture jokes and sing-along songs; PIXAR be blessed!!!!) and didn&#8217;t seek to attach too heavy and sordid social undertones to it.</p>

<p>I am a woman and I didn&#8217;t feel threatened at all by any &#8216;message&#8217; or roles in that movie.  Actually, I don&#8217;t see anything negatively sexist in the Buy n Large robots aforementioned.  It is a proven fact that women are still predominantly involved with housework and that men most often take care of &#8216;heavier&#8217; or dirty jobs like landscaping or garbage removal. I don&#8217;t think this is shocking or even bad.  It just seem to be a natural trend.</p>

<p>To me, a misogynistic portrayal of a female character would be if that character is presented as inherently stupid, or inept, or in some way contemptuous solely because it is female.  The mere fact of portraying a female as a love interest or doing traditionally &#8216;female&#8217; things isn&#8217;t necessarily negative.</p>

<p>I think it is getting to be a bit of a social hysteria; the urge and trend to create characters and character line ups almost SOLELY to enforce politically correct rules.  While that isn&#8217;t wrong in itself, I find it creates very contrived stories and art.  A story like Wall-E doesn&#8217;t in ANY way encourage or promote contempt, hatred or dismissal of women.  It is a story written for its own purpose and, I found, very honest and candid in its delivery.</p>
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		<title>By: LionKimbro</title>
		<link>http://www.michaelhanscom.com/eclecticism/2007/10/03/misogyn%e2%80%a2e/comment-page-1/#comment-97446</link>
		<dc:creator>LionKimbro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 00:17:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaelhanscom.com/eclecticism/2007/10/03/misogyn%e2%80%a2e/#comment-97446</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;Wall-E is such a clear and sharp reminder of women&#039;s superiority over men, I left the theater in crisis.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Wall-E&#039;s heroic act is &lt;em&gt;finding a dirty shoe.&lt;/em&gt;  It&#039;s not so much that she&#039;s &lt;em&gt;cold,&lt;/em&gt; when she initially turns off to Wall-E, so much as:  &quot;Why would that girl have &lt;em&gt;anything&lt;/em&gt; to do with a pathetic trash-collector robot?  She&#039;s got the future of life on Earth, and humanity to save, after all!&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Wall-E&#039;s just a sappy cowering robot that collects garbage and shows up late.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wall-E is such a clear and sharp reminder of women&#8217;s superiority over men, I left the theater in crisis.</p>

<p>Wall-E&#8217;s heroic act is <em>finding a dirty shoe.</em>  It&#8217;s not so much that she&#8217;s <em>cold,</em> when she initially turns off to Wall-E, so much as:  &#8220;Why would that girl have <em>anything</em> to do with a pathetic trash-collector robot?  She&#8217;s got the future of life on Earth, and humanity to save, after all!&#8221;</p>

<p>Wall-E&#8217;s just a sappy cowering robot that collects garbage and shows up late.</p>
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		<title>By: charles</title>
		<link>http://www.michaelhanscom.com/eclecticism/2007/10/03/misogyn%e2%80%a2e/comment-page-1/#comment-97439</link>
		<dc:creator>charles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jun 2008 16:49:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaelhanscom.com/eclecticism/2007/10/03/misogyn%e2%80%a2e/#comment-97439</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;You should see these movies before commenting on them...&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Character complexity is marked by growth.  Does a character learn something and change by the end?  The character of Wall-E doesn&#039;t grow in the film.  But Eve does.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;And those robots you were perusing on the website aren&#039;t identified in the film.  I don&#039;t know if they were even featured.  Wall-E and Eve are really the only robots that were assigned a gender.  See it before you write an article.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You should see these movies before commenting on them&#8230;</p>

<p>Character complexity is marked by growth.  Does a character learn something and change by the end?  The character of Wall-E doesn&#8217;t grow in the film.  But Eve does.</p>

<p>And those robots you were perusing on the website aren&#8217;t identified in the film.  I don&#8217;t know if they were even featured.  Wall-E and Eve are really the only robots that were assigned a gender.  See it before you write an article.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://www.michaelhanscom.com/eclecticism/2007/10/03/misogyn%e2%80%a2e/comment-page-1/#comment-61727</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 21:22:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaelhanscom.com/eclecticism/2007/10/03/misogyn%e2%80%a2e/#comment-61727</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;In response to Prairie&#039;s question about why Pixar aren&#039;t hiring women...&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I&#039;ve checked into statistics for the UK and the proportion of women going on to 3D animation, digital cinema, and media related courses is pretty low - around 22% or so.  This may explain it.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I&#039;ve also had a look through the credits of all the Pixar features and counted the number of jobs done by women and the number of jobs done by men.  The figures matched up with the number of students - about 22% as an average over the 8 films.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;This kinda suggests that Pixar hires people on merit and ability rather than gender.  Hmmm.... sounds familiar, rather like the topic of quality of character over gender.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Admittedly my figures aren&#039;t 100% accurate as I couldn&#039;t determine the sex of some people&#039;s names - Konishi, Narottama, for example, or even Alex and Kelly.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Also, I found that over time there has been a slight proportional shift toward a higher male % of crew - but this is negligible, particularly after you consider the % for crew of indeterminable gender (no offense meant).&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;On the whole though I&#039;m loving the discussion. I find my reaction sways as I read posts and investigate facts.  On the whole though I have to say that I don&#039;t think Pixar would intend any sexism... which is based on nothing more than my own hopes... I think they are just writing about what they know and identify with.
Perhaps they are just taking the easy way out by not challenging themselves by doing a female lead, but hey, the quality of the stories and the sheer joyful experience of watching these movies, the morally sound handling of good and evil, gives Pixar a &#039;get of jail free&#039; card.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;But then, what if.  What if they made a film with a female lead?  It could really settle some arguments.  Or then, as Michael suggested, if it was Ratatouille that had a female lead the outcry could have been incredible!  &#039;Pixar finally do a movie with a girl as the main character and what&#039;s it about???  COOKING!!!&#039;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Sometimes you just can&#039;t win.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In response to Prairie&#8217;s question about why Pixar aren&#8217;t hiring women&#8230;</p>

<p>I&#8217;ve checked into statistics for the UK and the proportion of women going on to 3D animation, digital cinema, and media related courses is pretty low &#8211; around 22% or so.  This may explain it.</p>

<p>I&#8217;ve also had a look through the credits of all the Pixar features and counted the number of jobs done by women and the number of jobs done by men.  The figures matched up with the number of students &#8211; about 22% as an average over the 8 films.</p>

<p>This kinda suggests that Pixar hires people on merit and ability rather than gender.  Hmmm&#8230;. sounds familiar, rather like the topic of quality of character over gender.</p>

<p>Admittedly my figures aren&#8217;t 100% accurate as I couldn&#8217;t determine the sex of some people&#8217;s names &#8211; Konishi, Narottama, for example, or even Alex and Kelly.</p>

<p>Also, I found that over time there has been a slight proportional shift toward a higher male % of crew &#8211; but this is negligible, particularly after you consider the % for crew of indeterminable gender (no offense meant).</p>

<p>On the whole though I&#8217;m loving the discussion. I find my reaction sways as I read posts and investigate facts.  On the whole though I have to say that I don&#8217;t think Pixar would intend any sexism&#8230; which is based on nothing more than my own hopes&#8230; I think they are just writing about what they know and identify with.
Perhaps they are just taking the easy way out by not challenging themselves by doing a female lead, but hey, the quality of the stories and the sheer joyful experience of watching these movies, the morally sound handling of good and evil, gives Pixar a &#8216;get of jail free&#8217; card.</p>

<p>But then, what if.  What if they made a film with a female lead?  It could really settle some arguments.  Or then, as Michael suggested, if it was Ratatouille that had a female lead the outcry could have been incredible!  &#8216;Pixar finally do a movie with a girl as the main character and what&#8217;s it about???  COOKING!!!&#8217;</p>

<p>Sometimes you just can&#8217;t win.</p>
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		<title>By: Baby Web Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Michael Hanscom notes that Pixar has not made a movie...</title>
		<link>http://www.michaelhanscom.com/eclecticism/2007/10/03/misogyn%e2%80%a2e/comment-page-1/#comment-50709</link>
		<dc:creator>Baby Web Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Michael Hanscom notes that Pixar has not made a movie...</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Oct 2007 06:15:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaelhanscom.com/eclecticism/2007/10/03/misogyn%e2%80%a2e/#comment-50709</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;[...] Michael Hanscom notes that Pixar has not made a movie with a lead female character and this unfortunate trend looks to continue with Wall-E. What&#8217;s been frustrating so far is simply that in many of Pixar&#8217;s prior films, there&#8217;s no particular reason why one or another of their characters couldn&#8217;t be female rather than male &#8212; would Ratatouille have been any less well done if he were a she? Would the rescue of the ant colony be less spectacular if Julia Louis-Dreyfus had voiced Flik against Dave Foley&#8217;s Prince Atta? [...]&lt;/p&gt;
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Michael Hanscom notes that Pixar has not made a movie with a lead female character and this unfortunate trend looks to continue with Wall-E. What&#8217;s been frustrating so far is simply that in many of Pixar&#8217;s prior films, there&#8217;s no particular reason why one or another of their characters couldn&#8217;t be female rather than male &#8212; would Ratatouille have been any less well done if he were a she? Would the rescue of the ant colony be less spectacular if Julia Louis-Dreyfus had voiced Flik against Dave Foley&#8217;s Prince Atta? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Prairie</title>
		<link>http://www.michaelhanscom.com/eclecticism/2007/10/03/misogyn%e2%80%a2e/comment-page-1/#comment-50613</link>
		<dc:creator>Prairie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2007 17:11:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaelhanscom.com/eclecticism/2007/10/03/misogyn%e2%80%a2e/#comment-50613</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;Several people have noted that Pixar writes primarily male characters because Pixar has a primarily male staff.  I think that this shows yet again that there&#039;s a problem at Pixar: why isn&#039;t Pixar hiring women?  Instead of excusing them because they&#039;re just a bunch of guys who don&#039;t know how to create female characters, shouldn&#039;t we be insisting that they hire a few more women?  The &quot;old white men&quot; excuse (for anything--politics, academia, film, etc.) is wearing thin.  If it means that women aren&#039;t accepted in the &quot;good old boys&quot; clubs, something needs to be changed.  I think an animation studio is as good a place as any to pursue this change.&lt;/p&gt;
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Several people have noted that Pixar writes primarily male characters because Pixar has a primarily male staff.  I think that this shows yet again that there&#8217;s a problem at Pixar: why isn&#8217;t Pixar hiring women?  Instead of excusing them because they&#8217;re just a bunch of guys who don&#8217;t know how to create female characters, shouldn&#8217;t we be insisting that they hire a few more women?  The &#8220;old white men&#8221; excuse (for anything&#8211;politics, academia, film, etc.) is wearing thin.  If it means that women aren&#8217;t accepted in the &#8220;good old boys&#8221; clubs, something needs to be changed.  I think an animation studio is as good a place as any to pursue this change.</p>
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		<title>By: M</title>
		<link>http://www.michaelhanscom.com/eclecticism/2007/10/03/misogyn%e2%80%a2e/comment-page-1/#comment-50601</link>
		<dc:creator>M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2007 15:16:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaelhanscom.com/eclecticism/2007/10/03/misogyn%e2%80%a2e/#comment-50601</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;Interesting point. I&#039;ve never noticed this before, but now that I look back, it&#039;s definitely true. One random point. As far as roommates are concerned: Cinderella had male mice as roommates. Snow White had 7 little male roommates. Toy Story Cowboy lived in the same room as cowgirl...etc etc.&lt;/p&gt;
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting point. I&#8217;ve never noticed this before, but now that I look back, it&#8217;s definitely true. One random point. As far as roommates are concerned: Cinderella had male mice as roommates. Snow White had 7 little male roommates. Toy Story Cowboy lived in the same room as cowgirl&#8230;etc etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Pixar&#8217;s gender issues &#171; b&#38;k m online</title>
		<link>http://www.michaelhanscom.com/eclecticism/2007/10/03/misogyn%e2%80%a2e/comment-page-1/#comment-50599</link>
		<dc:creator>Pixar&#8217;s gender issues &#171; b&#38;k m online</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2007 14:44:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaelhanscom.com/eclecticism/2007/10/03/misogyn%e2%80%a2e/#comment-50599</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;[...] Michael Hanscom wrote last year about the absence of lead female characters in films by Pixar. This article resurfaced after he learned more about WALL•E, the next movie to be released, and how it reinforces gender roles in its robots (discussed here). While I agree with Michael&#8217;s comments about the stereotypical gender assignments of the robots, I think I fall more in line with some of the commenters on the year-old post. Some pointed out that Pixar is run by white, middle-aged males, the films are directed by the same, and so the story lines generally run that course, too. I also agree that having a female lead for the sake of having a female lead is pointless. Andy left a comment earlier today on the older post. In part, he says: When we deal with gender issues, it’s important to remember the boys, too. No one has issues with a film that portrays strong female characters to the exclusion of positive male characters. I think that for the most part the primary female characters in Pixar movies have been very good, just not central, and I don’t think that’s really an issue when you look at how good the male characters are. [...]&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Michael Hanscom wrote last year about the absence of lead female characters in films by Pixar. This article resurfaced after he learned more about WALL•E, the next movie to be released, and how it reinforces gender roles in its robots (discussed here). While I agree with Michael&#8217;s comments about the stereotypical gender assignments of the robots, I think I fall more in line with some of the commenters on the year-old post. Some pointed out that Pixar is run by white, middle-aged males, the films are directed by the same, and so the story lines generally run that course, too. I also agree that having a female lead for the sake of having a female lead is pointless. Andy left a comment earlier today on the older post. In part, he says: When we deal with gender issues, it’s important to remember the boys, too. No one has issues with a film that portrays strong female characters to the exclusion of positive male characters. I think that for the most part the primary female characters in Pixar movies have been very good, just not central, and I don’t think that’s really an issue when you look at how good the male characters are. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.michaelhanscom.com/eclecticism/2007/10/03/misogyn%e2%80%a2e/comment-page-1/#comment-50524</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2007 02:03:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaelhanscom.com/eclecticism/2007/10/03/misogyn%e2%80%a2e/#comment-50524</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;One important point to remember with the Buy n Large site is that it&#039;s supposed to paint a particularly grim view of consumerism. Given the whole site is full of slightly sickening market speak, it makes sense, in terms of the fictional company, that they&#039;d make and sell their robots in a very stereotypical way, and I suspect Pixar have done it as part of showing the stupidity of the &quot;marketing&quot; done by companies like this, rather than any attempt to reinforce an outdated stereotype.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;As for Pixar in general, there is an argument to be made regarding the lack of a female lead character. I don&#039;t believe this to be intentional sexism, given that Pixar have created some strong female characters in its films. Part of it is probably down to a mainly male animation staff, and possibly a slight lack of confidence in their ability to produce an positive female lead character.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;It&#039;s a dilemma, and I rather see good supporting female characters than bad leading ones. However, Pixar have certainly have the ability to do both, and hopefully we&#039;ll be able to see that in later films.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One important point to remember with the Buy n Large site is that it&#8217;s supposed to paint a particularly grim view of consumerism. Given the whole site is full of slightly sickening market speak, it makes sense, in terms of the fictional company, that they&#8217;d make and sell their robots in a very stereotypical way, and I suspect Pixar have done it as part of showing the stupidity of the &#8220;marketing&#8221; done by companies like this, rather than any attempt to reinforce an outdated stereotype.</p>

<p>As for Pixar in general, there is an argument to be made regarding the lack of a female lead character. I don&#8217;t believe this to be intentional sexism, given that Pixar have created some strong female characters in its films. Part of it is probably down to a mainly male animation staff, and possibly a slight lack of confidence in their ability to produce an positive female lead character.</p>

<p>It&#8217;s a dilemma, and I rather see good supporting female characters than bad leading ones. However, Pixar have certainly have the ability to do both, and hopefully we&#8217;ll be able to see that in later films.</p>
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		<title>By: Heather</title>
		<link>http://www.michaelhanscom.com/eclecticism/2007/10/03/misogyn%e2%80%a2e/comment-page-1/#comment-50508</link>
		<dc:creator>Heather</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Oct 2007 23:50:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.michaelhanscom.com/eclecticism/2007/10/03/misogyn%e2%80%a2e/#comment-50508</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;Wow, I&#039;m usually the first person to notice and spout off about bad female depictions in kid movies.  I guess I&#039;m so blinded by my love of Pixar that I never took the time to notice.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Hopefully the guys at Pixar will see forums like this one and get the hint.  I honestly think that there are just so many men in that building that they just haven&#039;t thought about it.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;At least the female characters in Pixar films aren&#039;t feeble women waiting to be saved by male heroes.  Or vapid, vain princess/Barbie airheads.  And I agree that my little girl loves Pixar movies just as much as my boy.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I love Pixar, but I do hope they&#039;re listening.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, I&#8217;m usually the first person to notice and spout off about bad female depictions in kid movies.  I guess I&#8217;m so blinded by my love of Pixar that I never took the time to notice.</p>

<p>Hopefully the guys at Pixar will see forums like this one and get the hint.  I honestly think that there are just so many men in that building that they just haven&#8217;t thought about it.</p>

<p>At least the female characters in Pixar films aren&#8217;t feeble women waiting to be saved by male heroes.  Or vapid, vain princess/Barbie airheads.  And I agree that my little girl loves Pixar movies just as much as my boy.</p>

<p>I love Pixar, but I do hope they&#8217;re listening.</p>
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